[seaglimmerfarms]

PS: Your excuse for just about every round up is that the horses were off their land and keep leaving even after they are driven back onto their land. Can you show me the records that show helicopter use to drive them back onto their land? Can you show me a log of man hours used on horseback to drive them back onto their land? Conquistador was slated for removal because of his age. Baja was brought in for hair samples and his youngest filly is down right dog crippled lame. That whole group was released back into the wild. They NEVER should have brought Baja's group in and now there's a good chance the bay filly is dead. We're all waiting for updates.

The BLM cares so much they released crippled horses and young foals into mountain lion territory without further medical treatment. How wonderful and thoughtful of them! AND BEFORE YOU SAY THEY'RE TOO WILD TO HANDLE the BLM has been KNOWN to sedate horses with use of a blow gun to treat them. How hard would it be to sedate and soak feet and remove rocks from hooves? Good job BLM! WAY TO WASTE MY TAX DOLLARS!

[VivaLasVegas]

Originally Posted by seaglimmerfarms

uh last I checked you had to have a small pen with shelter. Most wild horses CAN jump over 6' to get out of trouble. It's been seen and been done before even by smaller Brumbies in Australia that jump retention walls and wind up on highways. A six foot fence to them, provided they can get a run at it, is nothing. Wild horses DO NOT WANT TO BE HELD and will go to extreme means to fight it as seen by tapes of BLM round up horses flipping over backwards out of trailers and being trampled to death. There's also a video that was removed from YouTube for being too graphic in which several horses wind up breaking their legs in a too small pen rearing and being caught up while other horses fall. It's disgusting and it's unnecessary.
6 ft is the requirement for the BLM. The recomended pen size is 400 sq. ft, but it can be as big as you like. The people I am talking about do not turn them out on 1/2 acre paddocks, but rather large pastures spanning several acres. In something that large, they are not going to feel as though they are being 'held" they have little human contact, plenty of space, and food and water. I have not seen any problems with these horses in that type of situation. As for horses being scared in trailers, yes I can imagine it must be quite scary, but once they realize nothing is going to eat them, they calm down. It's scary at the time, but they will most likely be going on to a much better life.

I understand you adopted a wild horse and you think the BLM is wonderful because you love your horse and will do everything you can to defend them, but their actions surrounding the round up in the Pryors and otherwise just proves how disgusting their whole operation is. Conquistador deserves to die the same way he came into this world two decades ago; free. The same goes with Grumpy Grulla. Not with Troy Cattoor using cattle prods to move them through chutes they don't want to go through. Not gelded and in someone's back yard paddock bullcrap. They deserve to be free. Conquistador is not someone's pet to continue breeding unwanted horses. He's a wild stallion who's genetics are needed to ensure the survival of a herd which will soon be extinct if the BLM has it's way. It's on the record that they turned away several Humane Observers now, they wouldn't let them near the pens for a couple days. You tell me what they're trying to hide!
I do not just support the BLM because I have adopted. I spend a lot of time throughout the year with these people and have seen myself how things are done. I have seen how much these people do care about the horses, and how many love them enough to give them homes. The people on the ground do everything they can for these horses. THAT is why I support them. Do I think the program is perfect? No, I'd be a fool to think that. But I feel the best way to help make a difference is from the inside. Sitting outside the fence and screaming about what is wrong is unacceptable, if you want change, come inside and talk, they don't bite. I don't agree with everything, but right now the program is what we have to work with. We need to remember to work with them, not against them. The BLM needs more support and public awareness to better the program, not less. As for the cattle prods, when I first saw them using them on mustangs as a kid I was appalled, but as I got older and more involved, I do see that SOMETIMES, there is a need for them. While I do not agree with breeding mustangs when so many are in need of homes, the people who breed Pryor Mountain horses are not a bunch of backyard breeders. They are very serious about the stock and horses they produce. These horses do not go unwanted as people are still paying a pretty penny for a good Spanish Colonial Horse. Conquistador would make a wonderful addition to any breeding program. The PMWHs will still be genetically viable as Conquistador has stamped out enough foals to carry is lines. The BLM is NOT trying to make these horses extinct. There were observers there, just not the woman from the Cloud Foundation. If you really want a non-biased opinion then check out this link: http://www.pryormustangs.org/mustang_blog.shtml

A week later, horses are still CRIPPLED on the range. Have you ever seen the devastating effects stone bruises that abscess cause? Without a doubt there's horses being taken down by predators out there that would never have been touched if it wasn't for the BLM and their poorly planned round up. This could have been done in winter when the horses were much lower and the foals much older.

Liker I said, the BLM is not perfect, but they do what they can. Right now they need more public support, not less.

[VivaLasVegas]

Originally Posted by seaglimmerfarms

PS: Your excuse for just about every round up is that the horses were off their land and keep leaving even after they are driven back onto their land. No, the round ups are done to keep populations down. Conquistador was slated for removal because he has been off the PMWHR for quite some time. Can you show me the records that show helicopter use to drive them back onto their land? Can you show me a log of man hours used on horseback to drive them back onto their land? Conquistador was slated for removal because of his age. Baja was brought in for hair samples and his youngest filly is down right dog crippled lame. That whole group was released back into the wild. They NEVER should have brought Baja's group in and now there's a good chance the bay filly is dead. We're all waiting for updates. I have not heard anything on this, if she was dead, we would know.

The BLM cares so much they released crippled horses and young foals into mountain lion territory without further medical treatment. How wonderful and thoughtful of them! AND BEFORE YOU SAY THEY'RE TOO WILD TO HANDLE the BLM has been KNOWN to sedate horses with use of a blow gun to treat them. How hard would it be to sedate and soak feet and remove rocks from hooves? Good job BLM! WAY TO WASTE MY TAX DOLLARS!

Yes, so lets use even more money that they don't have to sedate every single horse. Yes, the BLM will sedate horses when need be. But over 100? Sorry, thats just not doable.

[Stormyheart6160]

Originally Posted by VivaLasVegas

They DO NOT SELL HORSES FOR SLAUGHTER. People who buy sale authority horses have to make a verbal agreement that they will not sell the horse to a kill buyer, but in reality, once you own a horse it is yours to do what you please with it. People bring horses to slaughter all the time, what makes a wild untouchable horse any more deserving of life than the pony who gave everything they had for their rider only to get thrown away?
Someone will take him, I can almost gaurantee it.

Are you even serious????? Are you telling me that the BLM is capturing these horses because "there's too many", and they want to adopt out Conquistador, so he can breed more???????????? WTH??????

[Stormyheart6160]

Originally Posted by VivaLasVegas

Yes, so lets use even more money that they don't have to sedate every single horse. Yes, the BLM will sedate horses when need be. But over 100? Sorry, thats just not doable.

IMO if they can't treat the horses for injuries they caused,then they need to leave them alone!!!

Later!

[VivaLasVegas]

Originally Posted by Stormyheart6160

IMO if they can't treat the horses for injuries they caused,then they need to leave them alone!!!

Later!

They can't just leave them alone. Believe what you want to, but that is the truth. They have a job to do.

[Stormyheart6160]

Originally Posted by VivaLasVegas

They can't just leave them alone. Believe what you want to, but that is the truth. They have a job to do.

True. But most people who don't do their job well, lose thier job!

[VivaLasVegas]

Originally Posted by Stormyheart6160

True. But most people who don't do their job well, lose thier job!

They do their job to the best of their ability, but without proper funding they can't do it to the best of everyone's standards. Stormy, I don't like everything about the program, but there is an ever increasing population on an ever decreasing budget. No one wants euthanasia, but they want the BLM to do a better job with culling the herds, with only 9.2 million (over $27,000,000 goes to caring for the horses in holding). This pays for gathers, vets, PZP, genetic testing, ecologists to determine the condition of the land on all 34,340,678 acres, etc - Thats less than the budget for a single public school (at least where I'm from). There is simply not enough money to do a better job. I know you don't believe me, but the people on the ground really do care about what happens to these horses, and those are the people who get attacked for it, not the suits at the top. This is why I volunteer and do so much for them, its one less person they have to pay so they can keep money in the program. A lot of the people you will find at these events are volunteers, not employees.

[Stormyheart6160]

Originally Posted by VivaLasVegas

They do their job to the best of their ability, but without proper funding they can't do it to the best of everyone's standards. Stormy, I don't like everything about the program, but there is an ever increasing population on an ever decreasing budget. No one wants euthanasia, but they want the BLM to do a better job with culling the herds, with only 9.2 million (over $27,000,000 goes to caring for the horses in holding). This pays for gathers, vets, PZP, genetic testing, ecologists to determine the condition of the land on all 34,340,678 acres, etc - Thats less than the budget for a single public school (at least where I'm from). There is simply not enough money to do a better job. I know you don't believe me, but the people on the ground really do care about what happens to these horses, and those are the people who get attacked for it, not the suits at the top. This is why I volunteer and do so much for them, its one less person they have to pay so they can keep money in the program. A lot of the people you will find at these events are volunteers, not employees.

I follow you completely on what you're saying....from YOUR persective. My perspective is different from yours. Do I focus more on the negative aspects of all of it? Yes, I do. Someone has to! I don't and never will follow the logic that to remove perfectly healthy and happy animals from the range, just to euthanise them....costing people and organisations tons of money to do....also, to feed and house these animals....all the while complaining about the cost and shortage of funds.....when, IF they would leave well enough alone, let nature do what it's intended to do.....they'd be saving tons of money to go help HUMANS in need.

[VivaLasVegas]

Originally Posted by Stormyheart6160

I follow you completely on what you're saying....from YOUR persective. My perspective is different from yours. Do I focus more on the negative aspects of all of it? Yes, I do. Someone has to! I don't and never will follow the logic that to remove perfectly healthy and happy animals from the range, just to euthanise them....costing people and organisations tons of money to do....also, to feed and house these animals....all the while complaining about the cost and shortage of funds.....when, IF they would leave well enough alone, let nature do what it's intended to do.....they'd be saving tons of money to go help HUMANS in need.

I understand where you are coming from as well, but I realize that these horses HAVE TO be removed. The program is the Bureau of Land Management, not the Bureau of Loving Mustangs (as mean as that sounds). They have to focus on the multiple uses the land must provide for, not only in grazing for these horses, but for providing food and water for the native species that live there as well, and providing areas for public use, etc. The damage horses do to a range is insane, they do have to be managed to provide a stable and healthy enviroment for all involved. They are required to do this by law. I know you don't like seeing fat healthy horses rounded up, but remember, they are fat and healthy NOW, but you are already seeing long term damage done to the range, so that means they wont be (and neither will the native wildlife who has more of a right to it than the horses). Would you rather see a few healthy horses come in and be adopted? Or a whole bunch of skinny horses that look like they came from a hoarder who didn't have the money to feed them? (I have seen horses come in like this from an emergency gather in OR, who did not have enough flesh on their bones to make the winter. It was not a pretty sight)
Good morning by the way