[lbhugg]

Ok I understand the whole gelding thing but now what i have an issue with is if there are 27,000 and the BLM is planning on rounding up 11,000 that is almost half. Now Fallon I understand you are very passionate about this whole thing and I do not live in the west but I believe what everything boils down to is greed there is more than enough land however the ranchers want that for there heards. We are absolutely pathetic (as a whole species) that we are so wiling to kill anything off so it doesn't interfer w/ our lives and wealthyness. Cyotes eat the sheep lets kill all them so we don't loose profit, wild mustand eat the cattle grass let get rid of them, we are moving to there land then they get it our way so what do we do lets kill everything so we are safe and make sure we don't lose any money

[lbhugg]

http://capwiz.com/madeleinepickens/i...943361&type=AN

http://www.madeleinepickens.com/%20/...-wild-mustang/

Ok I don't know if I did this right but here is the proposed plan from Mrs.Pickens for the mustangs to me it sounds like she is working on a plan and saving the taxpayers money w/out killing

[lbhugg]

http://www.lasvegascitylife.com/arti...q_27289138.txt

Here is another short article about the proposed plan and what the BLM had to say about it

[doubledutch]

Originally Posted by lbhugg

Ok I understand the whole gelding thing but now what i have an issue with is if there are 27,000 and the BLM is planning on rounding up 11,000 that is almost half. Now Fallon I understand you are very passionate about this whole thing and I do not live in the west but I believe what everything boils down to is greed there is more than enough land however the ranchers want that for there heards. We are absolutely pathetic (as a whole species) that we are so wiling to kill anything off so it doesn't interfer w/ our lives and wealthyness. Cyotes eat the sheep lets kill all them so we don't loose profit, wild mustand eat the cattle grass let get rid of them, we are moving to there land then they get it our way so what do we do lets kill everything so we are safe and make sure we don't lose any money

it is human nature, if we arn't killing critters we are killing each other. how do you think this country got 'civilized'? the indians thought it was just fine the way it was.

[lbhugg]

Ya I guess if we aren't killing everything we can get are hands on then we would be barbarians

[VivaLasVegas]

I agree with Fallon 100% on everything she has said. The people at the BLM are doing everything they can to help these horses. They are not an evil bunch of cowboys that want wild horses gone forever. I volunteer with the BLM because I am trying to make a difference. I am at every adoption/event in the north east trying to help these horses. Moaning about what they are doing wrong is unnaceptable if you don't have a better solution.

On population. There were over 31,000 horses on public rangelands in the western states last year. A HEALTHY HERD MANAGEMENT LEVEL IS 27,000. These horses double in population every four years so this year the population would be at least 38,750. IF they round up 11,000 this year, it would bring the population down to 27,750, a HEALTHY level. This still does not help when the 33,000 in holding now becomes 44,000 and the budget is still shrinking.

As for gelding. Very few stallions actually breed in the wild. If you have 50 stallions, and you geld 49, you will have one tired stud at the end of the breeding season, but he'll get the job done.

As for birth control. The BLM is trying out the contraceptive PZP. It is a birth control that is very effective for the first year, pretty good for the second, alright for the third, and not so great for the fourth. If they continue to round up mares every 4 years, this should allow for some breeding, but not an over population. If this is used on every herd, we still wont see a difference for four or five years. Another problem with this drug is that is is very expensive, and budget cuts are becoming more of a problem.

As for cattle. These contracts were in place LONG before the mustangs were protected. And they are only alotted a certain amount of time on the range each year. This is not going to change so get over it. Now lets move on.

And yes, now for my favorite, the lovely Mrs. Pickens who wants to charge the BLM MORE than what they are paying now.

"The Bureau of Land Management is grateful to Madeleine Pickens for her interest in helping the BLM deal with the challenges of managing wild horses and burros, both on and off Western public rangelands. The BLM is committed to continuing its discussions with Mrs. Pickens to address these challenges, which include the effective management of wild horses and burros and the protection of taxpayer dollars expended through the BLM’s Wild Horse and Burro Program.
Last November, Mrs. Pickens offered to take over the care of thousands of wild horses that the BLM holds in facilities across the United States by setting up a private foundation that would care for the animals at no cost to the government, potentially saving American taxpayers millions of dollars.
Mrs. Pickens’ more recent proposal seeks a BLM stipend of $500 per horse, per year for the life of each horse. Under this plan, Mrs. Pickens' foundation would first take about 10,000 wild horses currently in BLM short-term holding facilities (corrals), the costs of which are significantly greater to the BLM than those of keeping horses in long-term holding (pastures).
To realize these potential savings to the BLM, however, Mrs. Pickens’ sanctuary plan would need to meet certain requirements for wild horse management.
First, Mrs. Pickens’ plan to care for these animals at $500 per horse, per year is similar to the long-term holding contracts that the BLM currently has with private landowners in the Midwest, where about 22,000 unadopted or unsold animals are cared for at an annual cost of about $475 per horse. The animals graze on private pastures in Oklahoma, Kansas, and South Dakota, where forage and water are abundant. In contrast to these annual contracts, Mrs. Pickens has asked the BLM to commit to lifetime payments. Because Congress appropriates the agency’s funding on an annual basis, the BLM is not authorized to make such an unlimited commitment.
Second, Mrs. Pickens’ plan proposes to take the animals from private pastures and facilities and instead graze them on private and public lands on a large ranch in Nevada. However, current Federal law prohibits the BLM from using allotments associated with that ranch for grazing wild horses. The Wild Free-Roaming Horses and Burros Act restricts animals to the areas where they were found roaming when the Act was passed in 1971. Unfortunately, none of the BLM grazing allotments that Mrs. Pickens proposes for her sanctuary were areas where wild horses roamed in 1971.
Congress would have to amend the Wild Free-Roaming Horses and Burros Act to address this aspect of Mrs. Pickens' proposal.
As an alternative, the BLM has offered to advertise a holding contract on private land and welcomes a bid from Mrs. Pickens’ foundation. Open bidding on such a contract would ensure that taxpayers get the maximum benefit from their investment.
The BLM is committed to working with Congress, stakeholders, and the public to ensure the welfare of wild horses and burros, both on and off public rangelands, while also protecting these Western lands from the destructive effects of herd overpopulation." -BLM
http://www.blm.gov/wo/st/en/info/newsroom/2009/march/NR_03

As for taking "their land". They never had land. They are not native, just like cattle and sheep. These horses compete with native species or forage and water just as other livestock do. If you want to look at the reality of the situation, these horses do not belong at all, but we love them, so we manage the population to keep them.

I do not like the idea of euthanizing these horses, but with an ever shrinking budget, no one adopting, feed and fuel costs rising, and a growing population, I do not see another option. I'd rather see them put down than starve to death, or wander into a public area where they will not only hurt themselves, but damage preopperty and harm inncoent people as well.

As I said before, If you really want to help these horses, standing outside the fence yelling about whats wrong is unnacceptable. If you want things to be different, come on inside, we won't bite. Volunteer your time, wether its putting up an adoption flyer at your tack shop, mentioning it in your siggy, or volunteer at an actual adoption (its a hoot!). Adopt a horse, or if you can't do that, sponser one at a rescue. There are many mustang groups you can join as well, like The US Wild Horse and Burro Association uswhba.org, AMBA, and many others. The best thing you can do to help is just be become educated about the facts, not the lies that so many special interest groups put out. Don't sit on your computer and moan about things you know nothing about. Get off your bu.tts and do something about it!

[VivaLasVegas]

Originally Posted by pest 357

A best guess 27,000 left in the wild and that includes the few wild horses in the east. As to the rest of the numbers foals would vary from year to year.Right now Cloud's grand daughter is a beautiful filly named Wildflower, who looks like her Grand Dad. The round up numbers are known only to the BLM but in the meeting last month they talked about 11,000 to be gathered this year and I repeat they can't feed the ones they have and turned down.Ms. Pickens offer.However I believe that may in some form still be in the works??

There are more horses than that out there. And the BLM does tell you how many horses are rounded up in every HMA. If you go to the website you will find a link on Monthly Review. At the bottom, it will tell you the estimated population, how may horses were gathered, how many mare were treated with PZP, and how many were euthanized for gather/nongather related injuries or health problems. They mentioned 11,000 because it would bring the horses down to a healthy HML.

To give you an idea around 2,000 of these horses have been rounded up so far this year, out of that, only 553 have been adopted.
They are running out money to feed the horses is holding, and running out of food on the range too.
And Mrs. Pickens is asking for $250,000 more a year than the BLM is already paying.

These horses are starving in some areas, if you have seen horses come in from an emergency gather, then you know that. Unless someone else has a better idea, I see euthanasia as the only way to even out populations and get the budget under control.