[lbhugg]

Originally Posted by Beeks

I checked the Cloud Foundation web site and could not find word one on their plan to purchase the older horses. There is however, many requests that the powers that be, get letters from horse lovers everywhere, to release the older ones back into the wild.

It is also ironic, that in the video, the 12 miles down the mountain, is being attributed to the soreness of the horses, while later on it is mentioned that the poor penned horses are used to traveling 10-15 miles in a day. Can't have it both ways folks.

How fast did they have to go the 12 miles. That there would make a huge difference was it 12 miles in 2 hours or did it take longer. They are used to going long distances but it is also at intervals. They may or may not give them breaks but I could see them getting sore by making them go to fast especially the babies.

[Beeks]

Originally Posted by lbhugg

How fast did they have to go the 12 miles. That there would make a huge difference was it 12 miles in 2 hours or did it take longer. They are used to going long distances but it is also at intervals. They may or may not give them breaks but I could see them getting sore by making them go to fast especially the babies.

According to the Pryor Mountain Wild Mustang Center blog, the horses are not pushed hard until they are close to the trap, to drive them in. The choppers go out in the early morning and the horses arrive in the mid afternoon. If I remember correctly, the average pace is around 3 miles an hour. As a person who had done my share of running cows on leased forest land in the mountains, it was not unusual to drop off with the trailers at the base of the mountain and ride 12-15 miles up to the top and then drive the cows back down. Granted, these horses were wearing shoes, but they were not wild horses with feet of iron either. All in about 8 hours.

[Stormyheart6160]

Originally Posted by Beeks

I checked the Cloud Foundation web site and could not find word one on their plan to purchase the older horses. There is however, many requests that the powers that be, get letters from horse lovers everywhere, to release the older ones back into the wild.

It is also ironic, that in the video, the 12 miles down the mountain, is being attributed to the soreness of the horses, while later on it is mentioned that the poor penned horses are used to traveling 10-15 miles in a day. Can't have it both ways folks.

Beeks, those horses DO travel several miles each day....but it's a slow meandering wander while they graze.....not a run while being chased by a helicopter. That's what made them come up lame....running down a mountainside, over some rocky terrain.....10-15 miles. They didn't just slowly walk down....they ran, trotted, and cantered down. That would make any horse lame.

[Stormyheart6160]

Originally Posted by VivaLasVegas

They do says they are working on plans A, B, and C to "save" the older horses... but they don't bother to say what any of them are

The element of surprise is always your best weapon.

[Stormyheart6160]

I also wanted to mention....those mustangs with "feet of iron", must of done some serious hard travelling,to make those "feet of iron" come up sore.

[Beeks]

They don't "run them down" Stormy, they would have a bunch of dead horses if they did that. The chopper pilot himself said it would be folly to run the herd down the mountain as wild horses can only sustain a full on run (as in to get away from a prey animal) for about a quarter of a mile. They are rooted out and walked down the mountain at around 2-3 miles an hour. They are only pushed at the very end when they are moving them towards the trap just prior to releasing the Judas horse. Unfortunately, civilians "observing" the capture, only see the tail end of it, when the horses are pushed and assume they have been traveling at that speed for miles.

Yes, some of them, especially the babies, got a bit sore, but in all the videos, we keep seeing the same couple of horses and babies over and over again. They brought down over 150 head.

The only thing I think I agree with the Cloud Foundation on is that yes, waiting a couple more months, when the snows push the horses farther down the mountain and the babies are a bit older, would have been easier on them, but to believe that the chopper chases these horses at top speed for 12 miles is incorrect.

The sore horses were also showing up in the later harems. That is because these particular harems had managed to out manuver the chopper for several days, meaning they had made attempts to bring them down more than once.

[VivaLasVegas]

Originally Posted by Beeks

They don't "run them down" Stormy, they would have a bunch of dead horses if they did that. The chopper pilot himself said it would be folly to run the herd down the mountain as wild horses can only sustain a full on run (as in to get away from a prey animal) for about a quarter of a mile. They are rooted out and walked down the mountain at around 2-3 miles an hour. They are only pushed at the very end when they are moving them towards the trap just prior to releasing the Judas horse. Unfortunately, civilians "observing" the capture, only see the tail end of it, when the horses are pushed and assume they have been traveling at that speed for miles.

Yes, some of them, especially the babies, got a bit sore, but in all the videos, we keep seeing the same couple of horses and babies over and over again. They brought down over 150 head.

The only thing I think I agree with the Cloud Foundation on is that yes, waiting a couple more months, when the snows push the horses farther down the mountain and the babies are a bit older, would have been easier on them, but to believe that the chopper chases these horses at top speed for 12 miles is incorrect.

The sore horses were also showing up in the later harems. That is because these particular harems had managed to out manuver the chopper for several days, meaning they had made attempts to bring them down more than once.

The only problem with waiting a few months is the footing will be worse. The ground will harden, and you also risk the possibility of ice. Once it freezes that ground won't be much different than pavement... And then the Cloud Foundation will be screaming about that. Could you imagine what they would have done if a horse got hurt then? They would have been screaming it should have been done in the spring before the foals were born and the ground was softer. But if the BLM did it then, they'd be complaining about the BLM pushing pregnant mares to hard and putting to much stress on them. The BLM cannot win as far as the people at the Cloud Foundation are concerned.

[Beeks]

At least the lenght of their "Run", would have been more like 7-10, instead of 12. I realize it would not matter as anytime would be criticized, but there is some truth in the distance if the snow forced them down.

[VivaLasVegas]

Originally Posted by Beeks

At least the lenght of their "Run", would have been more like 7-10, instead of 12. I realize it would not matter as anytime would be criticized, but there is some truth in the distance if the snow forced them down.

Agreed, but I'm just not sure which would be better... a longer distance on soft ground... or a slightly shorter distance on ground thats frozen solid, if they come in wet with sweat, and then standing in freezing temperatures... that doesn't seem right either... I just don't know...

[Beeks]

Well their biggest point of contention seems to be the length of the drive and now, them standing in pens in the hot sun. I understand, it would have been," they are lame from slipping and now must stand sweaty in the freezing cold", but as with any debate, you are never going to make both sides happy.