[VivaLasVegas]

Originally Posted by lbhugg

I am curious is there any footage of the mustangs that are starving and bad off? I am being serious. Everything that I have seen with the roundups the horses coming in are fatter than mine and that's saying something lol. I haven't seen any that look deprived of food. I could be wrong but would like to see if it's out there.

A lot of people ask this question. I see comments about how the BLM has horses wasting away in pastures and all of the horses on the range look in great shape


I've seen this picture floating around quite a bit. What orginazations with something against the BLM won't say, is that this was from that emergency gather from the Coyotes Lake HMA last october. The BLM had originally planned to round up the Sheeps Head HMA, but one look at this mare lets you know why they changed their plans.

And you saw the same thing with the Pryors. This mare, and several others, the BLM is keeping a few weeks to fatten up so they can be re-released with a chance of surviving the winter (because they will NOT make the winter with the way they are now).


This is why roundups are done. Sure you are seeing mostly healthy looking horses at the momemt,but that doesn't mean they will stay that way. The Cloud Foundation saying the PMWHR is lush and green, and there has been a higher than average rainfall. In reality, its quite the opposite. Sure, there are areas that still have plenty of grass, and thats where you will find the horses, but thats only because they won't stay where there isn't enough food. You are already seeing damage done to the range.


lush and green right?

The wild horse population doubles every 4 years. If the BLM had left them alone, the roughly 200 would explode to 1,200 in just 10 years... 4,800 in 20! Thats quite a few of our living legends fighting over just 38,000 acres. Can you imaging them living on less than 8 acres of that a year?. If the land is starting to look like this now, can you imagine what would happen then?

[Rhythmic Hooves]

I have not kept up with what is happening in awhile but the way I have always seen it is like this.

You can't have the best of both worlds. You can either have the horses left to be free and have a natural cycle of life or you can choose to take humane care of them and be forced to gentle them in order to properly care for them.

Now i'll debate the pros and cons with myself ;-)
Option A (the horses left to be free and have a natural cycle of life) - Just why is it that American Mustangs are found to be extremely smart, resourceful, hardy animals with a hard feet? It's simply the same reason cow horses come out watching cattle and racehorses come out running. It's all in the years and years of breeding. Mustangs have never been given the option to have an easy, "wild & free" life. No, for as long as they have been roaming, everyday is a fight to stay alive. It's a fight to find and keep the best grazing area with the best water source and it's a fight to stay out of the hands of humans. Only the best of the best survive and, in my opinion, that is the reason they have become such wonderful animals. And yes, I know some of them are kinda kooky but either they learn to smarten up or they get eaten.
The down side of this plan is the fact that in order to let nature work it's magic, humans must leave them be. The range running low on grass and horses dying is natures way of fixing the problem. Yeah, nobody enjoys seeing starving horses but life happens. I don't enjoy watching the snake eat the mouse but the snake has to eat and he keeps the rodent population down. The problem with my idea is that with as few horses as their are left on the range, they could all possibly starve off before nature works it's way back out. I highly doubt it though. We might think they were gone for 100 years before learning that a small group survived in some hidden valley and it might be another 100 years before there was once again a nice thriving population but I high doubt they would all just die off. After all, the reason we love them is because of the spirit and will to live.

Option B (you can choose to take humane care of them and be forced to gentle them in order to properly care for them) - The pros of taking the "humane" option is that the horses would be well cared for... nope, fooled ya! Once again, we have death for some horses. Let's just face it. Admit it. It would be impossible to find enough people with the knowlege to gentle and care for these horses and provide them with a home for life. It's hard to find a good life long home for a trained, "useable" horse. The idea of finding them all a slice of heaven here on this earth is crazy and the work of dreamers.
Now back to properly caring for the few we manage to find good homes for. They will HAVE to be atleast halter broke and gentle so they can receive hoof care and emergency vet care. Then think of the physiological hurt. Not all these horses are of a trainable state of mind.

Option C would be to take the cattle off and let the horses have the range but to debate that would be to debate the politics of the beef industry and the US government. Also, it would only be a temporary fix to a larger problem. Because like unlike fish who grow to the size of the tank, the horses will fill up that land also over time and once again the question will be: When and where and how should humans care for the wild animals?

My personal vote is option A. Why fix something that can fix itself?

[Rhythmic Hooves]

It seems that after reading another post I have realized that my option A wouldn't work out so very well because of the lack of fencing.... can anyone say lawn grazing? OR making the other animal rights groups mad by letting our horses eat their rare animals grass?

Hmmm... what to do?

[VivaLasVegas]

And also, the video posted is full of false information.

1) The fact that there were 2,000,000 million horses has long been debated. There is no proof one way or another. Were there a lot of them? Yeah, but thre were also practically no people. There are also more than 30,000 horses left on the range and over 30,000 in holding. The real number of mustangs is closer to 70,000.

2) The sale authority horses cannot be sold for the purpose of slaughter. Period. You do have to make an agreement with the BLM that you will not bring them to slaughter or sell them to a kill buyer. Do horses sometimes end up in slaughter? Yes, but once a horse is your propperty, it is yours to do with as you please. I have title to Vegas and I could send him if I wanted (which I won't, but you get the idea).

3) The BLM was NOT going to euthanize 30,000 horses. It was more like 1,200 which is a comparable drop in the bucket to the population crisis at hand.

And on a side note...
Most of that footage was from Madeline Pickens's video. She came on the scene with her great idea of a sanctuary for all of the horses in holding. This was an awesome gesture, as she made it appear as though she would be funding this herself. Unfortunately, this was not the case. Not only did she want to use public and private lands in the desserts of Nevada, an area of NV wild horses and burros were not found in 1971 and there is practically no forage (they can only be areas they were found then because of the WFRHB act of 1971), she also wanted the BLM to pay her! I'm not talking about a one time deal here. She wanted the BLM to pay her $500 dollars per horse, per year, for the rest of its life. Thats more than they are paying now for private land! She wanted them to pay her to use their land!
... but she never mentioned that to the scores of people cheering her on
http://www.blm.gov/wo/st/en/prog/wil...e_pickens.html

[Beeks]

Sigh...here we go again. There is so much over stated propaganda on both sides. I STILL prefer to believe the gentleman who is a Pryor Mountain Wild Mustang advocate and is still keeping daily track of ALL the horses, captured or freed, in his daily blog sponsored by the Pryor Mountain Wild Mustang Center.

Have a read people. The foals recovered as did the colicy mare. The BLM got their entire quota, but rather than bring in the remaining herds, they took from the ones already in pens.

Read it. Digest it. Believe it.

http://www.pryormustangs.org/mustang_blog.shtml

After thought. Is the Cloud Foundation still planning on buying up the un-adoptables or was that just so much chest thumping?

[VivaLasVegas]

Originally Posted by Beeks

After thought. Is the Cloud Foundation still planning on buying up the un-adoptables or was that just so much chest thumping?

I'm still wondering this myself. So far it doesn't sound like it...

[Stormyheart6160]

Originally Posted by VivaLasVegas

And also, the video posted is full of false information.

1) The fact that there were 2,000,000 million horses has long been debated. There is no proof one way or another. Were there a lot of them? Yeah, but thre were also practically no people. There are also more than 30,000 horses left on the range and over 30,000 in holding. The real number of mustangs is closer to 70,000.

2) The sale authority horses cannot be sold for the purpose of slaughter. Period. You do have to make an agreement with the BLM that you will not bring them to slaughter or sell them to a kill buyer. Do horses sometimes end up in slaughter? Yes, but once a horse is your propperty, it is yours to do with as you please. I have title to Vegas and I could send him if I wanted (which I won't, but you get the idea).

3) The BLM was NOT going to euthanize 30,000 horses. It was more like 1,200 which is a comparable drop in the bucket to the population crisis at hand.

And on a side note...
Most of that footage was from Madeline Pickens's video. She came on the scene with her great idea of a sanctuary for all of the horses in holding. This was an awesome gesture, as she made it appear as though she would be funding this herself. Unfortunately, this was not the case. Not only did she want to use public and private lands in the desserts of Nevada, an area of NV wild horses and burros were not found in 1971 and there is practically no forage (they can only be areas they were found then because of the WFRHB act of 1971), she also wanted the BLM to pay her! I'm not talking about a one time deal here. She wanted the BLM to pay her $500 dollars per horse, per year, for the rest of its life. Thats more than they are paying now for private land! She wanted them to pay her to use their land!
... but she never mentioned that to the scores of people cheering her on
http://www.blm.gov/wo/st/en/prog/wil...e_pickens.html

Just curious here.....how much does the BLM pay per year, per horse,to care for it? Surely.....more than $500?? I wish I could keep and house a horse for $500 a year, and have that include their hay, feed, farrier, shots, worming, vet care, ect.

I don't think Mrs.Pickens asking for $500 a year, per horse is even close to being unreasonable.

[VivaLasVegas]

Originally Posted by Stormyheart6160

Just curious here.....how much does the BLM pay per year, per horse,to care for it? Surely.....more than $500?? I wish I could keep and house a horse for $500 a year, and have that include their hay, feed, farrier, shots, worming, vet care, ect.

I don't think Mrs.Pickens asking for $500 a year, per horse is even close to being unreasonable.

The horses in long term care cost $475 per head per year. I wish I could keep my guys for that cheap too! Ranchers offer up thousands of acres of thier own land for the BLM to use at that low of a cost. See? They aren't all evil horse haters!

To me it is, when she said she wouldn't be using tax payer money to fund this, and she's asking for even more than the BLM is already paying. She went on and on about how it would save tax payers sooo much money... yeah right!

[Beeks]

I checked the Cloud Foundation web site and could not find word one on their plan to purchase the older horses. There is however, many requests that the powers that be, get letters from horse lovers everywhere, to release the older ones back into the wild.

It is also ironic, that in the video, the 12 miles down the mountain, is being attributed to the soreness of the horses, while later on it is mentioned that the poor penned horses are used to traveling 10-15 miles in a day. Can't have it both ways folks.

[VivaLasVegas]

Originally Posted by Beeks

I checked the Cloud Foundation web site and could not find word one on their plan to purchase the older horses. There is however, many requests that the powers that be, get letters from horse lovers everywhere, to release the older ones back into the wild.

It is also ironic, that in the video, the 12 miles down the mountain, is being attributed to the soreness of the horses, while later on it is mentioned that the poor penned horses are used to traveling 10-15 miles in a day. Can't have it both ways folks.

They do says they are working on plans A, B, and C to "save" the older horses... but they don't bother to say what any of them are