[Blistering Winds]

Ok, today in school, I went on a search. I talked with 3 different nutritionists at the school AND made some phone calls.

They all agree.



If your horse is healthy, kidneys working properly, you can DUMP as much protein in them as you want. It won't hurt them as a whole directly, but you will be peein a lot and with peein a lot, other nutrients can be lost as well. But as a whole, Protein won't hurt your horse as much as we think.

it is not only a waste of nutrient, it is also a waste of money!!!

What ends up hurting a horse, many high protein feeds/grains/hays are also high calcium. THAT is what usually tears up the kidneys in this process. So if you go HIGH protein anything, watch your calcium levels, as you can cause calcium stones and damage the Kidneys.


But since we were discussing this the other day, I went on a quest during my off hour. If you are giving a horse too much protein, it is a good idea to look at other aspects and feed options to save MONEY....not horse.

[MissBandit]

Doesn't too much protein makes horses hot. I've always been told this and I have seen it first hand - way too many times.

[Blistering Winds]

Miss Bandit, it is the CALORIES making a horse look "hot". Not Protein, not any of the other stuff. how the horse USES the calories is another thing. Because 1000g to Blister isn't nothing since he is worked daily....but 1000g to Pepper would put her on the roof without utilizing it.

But the post I posted wasn't whether a lot of protein will make a horse hot, but how much a horse can really take overall.

MUCH of the protein that we dump, if the horse doesn't find a use for it, is removed from the body via urine.

protein Calories, because it is removed very quickly, is not a "great" source of energy nor is the usual cause of our idea of "hot". When we feed high protein, there are other items that are ingested that are the "real" suspects making a horse "hot". Not the protein.

One of the Grad Students several years ago did a study on protein sources. Those low in STARCH seemed to not make a hosre "hot" compared to those with greater amounts of "STARCH". Her conclusion.....STARCH is making the horse hot. NOT protein. Which, when you really sit down and look at things, IS the culprit 9 times out of 10.

[Dawn]

It puts more work on the kidneys, right? Therefore stressing the kidneys. Overtime, breaking the kidneys down. An excess of ammonia in the body (even if it is on its way 'out') is not healthy either.

[Blistering Winds]

the nutritionist said basically, over a VERY VERY long period of time, as the horse ages, it would not be good. But as long as the horse stays healthy, there has not been any direct problems with Excess protein, up to some serious high amounts.

As long as there is free access to a salt block, plenty of fresh clean water, PROTEIN is not a concern when you are needing other things. Kidneys do not have a 1000 miles and they are done. So as long as they are working properly, a horse can sit and PEE all day long, non-stop as long as the same amount is going BACK in the other way as far as water. Removing protein is very non-invasive as it is already broken down by the time it reaches the kidneys. Unlike what "minerals" do to kidneys or other toxins. But the Ammonium Nitrate isn't hard on them at all, and flushes out easily and with minimal work. So NO, it isnt' "hard" on a kidney.

I asked a vet about that one, and that was his response. It is no worse than you shoving SALT in a horse all day long, which we all tend to "overfeed" salt to ensure water intake. Protein is no more hard than salt.

[Blistering Winds]

Protein, because the body does tend to remove it rather than store it, is not a GOOD thing to look at when adding weight. It is very costly and THAT is the reason why nutritionists and feeders look to other sources for actual WEIGHT GAIN and "energy". Protein is MAINLY used for "body upkeep" cells and such, so what is not used there, most is urinated out. A very small amount, compared, is kept for actual "energy" and "weight gain".

[Dawn]

Of course as long as he stays healthy he'll be fine. It's when he starts to become unhealthy that there are problems. That was a rather circular statement you made.

Protein provides calories. It does not matter whether the body needs the actual components that make it a protein or not (amino acids). It will still be used for calories. It is the amino acids and such that are not used. This is what is flushed out of the body. It, in no way, affects the calories ingested by the horse. Nothing is 'kept' for energy or weight gain. It is utilized, essentially, just as carbohydrates and fats are in regards to calories (energy and weight gain). Unless a horse is just not metabolizing something (for some reason) the calories will remain the same. So no, protein is not urinated out. The byproducts of digested protein are urinated out.

[dakota's_sable]

Thanks for the info BW, very helpful. So nice of you to use your spare time to give us some good info.

[Blistering Winds]

Dawn, horses age, their kidney goes bad. THAT is a fact of life. So as the horses "AGE" and get "elder" it would be wise to watch their protein. But basically, through their normal, "HEALTHY", FULLY FUNCTIONAL life time, Protein is not THAT big of a concern.

YES, "CALORIES" are being flused of the system. they are not all used, and as the "ammonium nitrates" are being flushed, so do most of the calories that it could have provided......

Yes, "ENERGY" can be stored. What do you think all those "fat" deposits around my waste are? If I actually USED it more, the TCA Cycle would pull and break down the fat deposits, and utilize those glycogen molecules OUT of our Fat deposits.

URINE is a very "popular" feed additive if someone wants to go "CHEAP" with ruminant nutrition. Why? Because it is high in Nitrogen, which has "calories" Cattle can utilize. Almost everything has calories of some kind. how available and utilizeable it is, is important when considering it for a "feed additive".



Ammonia Nitrates are NOT popular in the body to store as it is Flushed and filtered out pretty quickly. You have to feed a LOT and some how PREVENT the animal from pee'in so much to really utilize "protein" as a good energy source.

It is very widely known in both the cattle and the horse world as a "poor energy source" because so much either goes to "body functions" or is urinated out. YES, some is converted and stored, but the majority of the left over is removed by the body.

Our "adkins" diets are based on a High protein diets. One thing that when you look at the urine, is for "keytones" which is the ammonia nitrates. When these start "flushing" out of the system, so do other nutrients unfortunately. But those "calories" that we are eating are NOT being utilized and the actual BASIS of a high protein diet. "ENERGY" that is easily stored resides in STARCHES and CARBOHYDRATES. Protein is not a body's favorite "energy" source as it takes energy to convert it to storable "packages". Another reason it is flushed out so easily.

[Blistering Winds]

Basically, the purpose of why I posted was to let people know to at least get the minimum grams your hosre needs per day, and if you have to add MORE to balance your diets, don't worry so much about the Crude Protein amounts, Get what you need and balance the rest. CP is NOT that "SENSITIVE" of a nutrient like Calcium/Phosphorus, Zinc, magnesium, etc are. Get where you need to be, and if you are a little over in CP, Don't sweat it. If that is the only diet you can acquire without suffering the more "sensitive" nutrients, then so be it. It isn't that big of a deal. And it isn't the "protein" throwing your horses off their rockers either, the USUAL culprit is that Starch that is being injested right along with the proteins, that the TCA cycle (energy cycle) Grabs up FAST and gets it burned off right away.