[VivaLasVegas]

Originally Posted by Debbie z.

No adoption no life. Ther's no long linewaiting for these horses.

Actually, you'd be suprised to know there are many people awaiting the adoptioin for these horses. This is a very popular herd and many are chomping at the bit for the opertunity to have an animal out of this HMA.

[Debbie z.]

Originally Posted by Beeks

That was not video of the Pryor Mountain Horses, which is the subject of the petition and this thread. I am sure we could all dig up videos of trauma at round ups, but the general trauma of BLM round ups is not the subject of the petition.

FYI this is postedby Carol Walker who works with Gretchen who has been filming cloud in a documentary for 10 yrs. And asked by Marty Lauer to do it. And This Petition has everyhtingto do with it!!

[Debbie z.]

If it'snothing toworry about then howcomes this round up has been braught before a judge. Protesters,prayers,vigils,news media on all channels. Notes to the Pres., Oprah.,nation wide. Ther'snever been such a heartwarming documentary followed so closely. There was just something captivatingfrom Gretchen. Well not worried about my reputation on this forum. I will go else where.

[Beeks]

Originally Posted by Debbie z.

Round ups are sugar coated. This is a round up off the website. I'm not digging upanything. Everyone says how good their taking care of well I have news for them. Their stuck in sandy pens and not one news clip or photo is any of them eating food or hay but in the backround is beautiful lush pastures 38,000 acres. Reality check needs to be done
And the sub of petition is the cruel treament,seperating herds from eachother. Foals getting seperated from mares. Horses getting jammed in a trucks and shipped off.
Howl ong is funding availablef or holding areas for these horses? They go to Slaughter and you know it.No adoption no life. Ther's no long linewaiting for these horses.

Round ups are sugar coated. Yep, they probably are.

A roundup off whose website and why are you shaking your head at me?

I didn't say you went digging. I said we could all dig up videos showing trauma to horses at round ups.

Where have I said they are so well taken care of.

Many domesticated horses are dry lotted in sandy pens. If the good people of the Cloud Foundation are upset about how little media attention is given to their feeding regimen, then go to it and get the video and pic you need.

The rest of your argument is based on emotion.

How much funding is there for the penned horses. Not much. Do I think all the horseys find good loving homes? Nope. But culling and utilizing the sick, the old and the rank as a way of financing the program so it can be strengthened might be a good place to start.

This nation has too many horses wild and domestic. We shut down the only viable market for the surplus when we eliminated slaughter. Now other countries cash in on our surplus.

I understand your passion. I used to feel 100% the way you do, but I have seen the horses on our local reservation who have no program to speak of and they are foul looking, boney, ribby and pathetic.

[Beeks]

Originally Posted by Debbie z.

If it'snothing toworry about then howcomes this round up has been braught before a judge. Protesters,prayers,vigils,news media on all channels. Notes to the Pres., Oprah.,nation wide. Ther'snever been such a heartwarming documentary followed so closely. There was just something captivatingfrom Gretchen. Well not worried about my reputation on this forum. I will go else where.

Because the documentary brought Cloud and his life into the homes of the public. Ginger set out to make a documentary on the wild herd of Pryor Mountain and when they eventually came under target of the BLM there was a very effective media tool to use, to stop it.

It would have been the same for any wild her she documented, not just Clouds. The average joe American is totally uneducated as to the current plight of the horse market in America. All they hear is that these lovely wild horses they have come to know through a documentary are going to be captured and the righteous fists are lifted into the air.

I do not think there is a single person on this forum that wants to see wild horses taken from their habitats. But the reality of it is, it has to be done. I would be interested in looking at factual documentation that is not produced by the Cloud Foundation or any foundation like it, that can back up the accusation being leveled at the BLM. I am not a big BLM fan but I respect Viva for putting her proverbial money where her mouth is, in being deeply involved in the adoption process, the same way I respect Stormy for backing her slaughter opinion by taking in the horses people have thrown away.

Signing the petition at this time is a mute point anyway. The round up is underway and no amount of lobbying could stop it now.

[Beeks]

This website here, I believe, is probably the most factual account of the Pryor Mountain roundup. It is a daily blog written by a member of the Pyror Mountain Wild Mustang Center. He is going to be putting up a daily account of the events of each day. he is not happy with the amount of horses the BLM wants to take and feels it would be best to reveal his reasoning at a later date. I think this is about as factual an account as can be hoped for. He does not sugar coat, and is realistic.

I for one, will be reading it daily.

http://www.pryormustangs.org/mustang_blog.shtml

[crfoxtrotters]

Great link. Shows what is really happening.
After being in the pryors the last two years I can say that it is dry as a bone, and vegitation is not in great supply

[Stormyheart6160]

Originally Posted by Beeks

If the pictures to prove all this abuse is happening, are available, then why post a "puppies and rainbows" video of the capture when you are against it and have documented proof of abuse?? Seems to me an "anti-Cloud herd capture" video would have had less pictures of people and fat healthy humanely treated horses, and more trampled foals, injured and broken animals and whatever else is allegedly happening.

I am not trying to say the abuse may not be legit, but if you have photographed proof of it, or video, then I would think you would pull alot more people to the cause by posting that, rather than the video posted here.

I have dial up, so watching that video that's been posted would take me all day or night. lol So, no....I didn't watch the video and have no idea what's on it.

As far as posting the proof of the injured animals already and the story on Dave Cartoor......it's in my email. Right now, I'm on Michelle's (Betty Bootsy) computer, and for whatever reasons, her computer won't let us check our emails from Yahoo. So, I'll have to wait until my son gets up and get his laptop to get that email and post it. It has some really good info in it.

There was another email I got about the roundup....concerning the number of horses being removed from the herd. It stated that anywhere from 150-200 horses were needed to keep the herd going, and to drop the herd down to less than 150 would create a lot of inbreeding, destroying the genes that make it so viable. The number of horses they are removing would reduce the herd to 120 horses. I'll see if I can find that email also and post it.

In reality....I think the BLM is trying very hard to make this roundup look better than it is, and in reality, YES.....I think it all evolves around how much money the BLM will make off these horses. I honestly don't think it has a thing to do with preventing them from starving, or any other nasty thing.

Someone documented Cloud and his herd, making them famous. Now, those involved in the roundup of them are seeing a way of "cashing in" on that fame. That herd is NOT in danger of dying off if left alone.

In general, most of the public KNOWS there are herds of wild Mustangs out there, but don't know a thing about them.....just that they are wild horses. Didn't everyone want FLicka, or Trigger, or how about Mr. Ed, when they were made famous? Before their fame, they were all just another horse. There was nothing special about them before the fame kicked in, that made them take national attention. Same goes for Cloud and his herd. Before their fame, they were just another herd of wild horses, living on the range doing just fine. Now that they are famous, here's a money making opportunity for the BLM, and suddenly Clouds herd is dying from starvation.

Seems to be a lot of similiarities to this story.....something to do with WMD in Iraq, to justify invading that country. The government (and, the BLM) will tell the public ANYTHING to justify and get the approval of the public to gain a buck!

There ARE herds of wild horses that need help....but, Clouds herd isn't one of them!

I'll be back later with links to the info I posted.

[VivaLasVegas]

Originally Posted by Debbie z.

YouTube - Roundup Wreck

Just to let every one know, this is news release on what happened to that grey mare that was trampled while being loaded onto a trailer

BLM Responds to Misinformation re: Incident Involving Gray Mare at Sand Wash (Colorado) Gather of October 2008

Here are the facts: The mare reared and was pushed over by other horses while she was moving down the alleyway toward the trailer. She was down on the ground for several minutes, behind -- but not under -- the trailer. During this time, she had other horses on top of her. With the help of the BLM contractor's gather crew, the horses moved off the mare and she got to her feet without needing assistance. She was examined by a veterinarian immediately after the incident, as well as over the next several days. Although shaken and dirty, she had no serious injuries. This mare, which was later freezemarked with the number 04247734, had a foal on March 24, 2009, at the Canon City (Colorado) facility. Mother and baby (see the accompanying photo) are healthy and both are available for adoption. The incident was an unfortunate accident. Although infrequent, some problems are unavoidable when handling wild animals, including horses. Immediately after the incident, the BLM, the USDA APHIS (U.S. Department of Agriculture's Animal and Plant Health Inspection Service) veterinarian on site, and the gather contractor personnel talked about what happened. They reviewed the handling and loading process, checked the alleyway, and discussed ways to avoid similar incidents in the future. Reviewing an incident in this manner is standard procedure for the BLM, which continually works to protect the health and well-being of the animals that need to be gathered.

Mother and baby are healthy and both available for adoption.

If you are able to provide a good home for this pair or any other wild horses, please call the BLM at (866) 4MUSTANGS.



Link:
http://www.blm.gov/wo/st/en/prog/wil...july_2009.html

[bnttyra]

Originally Posted by Lyrical Lass

Howard Boggess, Member of the Crow Tribe of Indians, Elder and Historian talks about the Pryor Wild Horses he's known all his life. Mr. Boggess discusses what could happen if the roundup of Cloud's herd goes forward on Sept. 4th. Everything that is against the law for me they are planning to do to these horses. This is a very sad thing as far as Im concerned. The horses have lived here for over 200 years. Even under the harassment of the BLM theyve survived.
YouTube - Crow Elder and Historian Speaks Against Round Up of Cloud's Herd

And Sincere Thanks Crow Elders for This special ceremony!
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/32671842#32671842


Ohhh Wooo Hooo .. LmaoOOOOoooo .... yeah ... those da%mned old tree huggers ... we oughtta round all them up as well
...sorry ... OMG, that was just Tooooo Funny!! .. sad and unbelievably shallow .. (I can't believe someone would actually say that except as a joke .. so I'm assuming it was meant to be funny
~ Lyrical Lass

No, I am dead serious. And just so you know, those are NOT Crow elders nor was that ceremony done by Crow elders. That guy in the first video maybe had 1/8 Crow in him but that is it and I doubt that his is really a Crow elder. I have been around them my whole life and trust me, they do not talk like that at all. Once again you are posting information straight off of the internet about stuff posted by people who don't really understand.

Here is a little bit of true information about the Crow tribe straight off of their website. If this is such a big deal to the Crow tribe which basically owns the Pryor Mountains, why is it not even mentioned on their website.

http://www.crowtribe.com/pop.htm


My dad actually worked on the Crow indian reservation for 20 years and my parents still live there today. Trust me that if they did not approve of what was occurring, we would be hearing about it from real indians.

And with this, I will leave this thread.