[SuZQuzie]

So, I have starting really working Penny again. When I asked this question before, she was a fine weight but actually on the tubby side, so I made no changes to her diet. After only two days of moderate work (only w/t/c transitions for maybe 30 minutes), she lost the tub and I'm seeing ribs. Not good.

Right now, she is on:
-2 flakes Orchard Grass AM
-2 flakes Alfalfa PM
-3 quarts wheat bran
-2 oz. Farnam Mare Plus
-access to salt block

When in Full Performance (Jumping twice a week, worked 6 days a week, showing once a month for up to 3 days at a time, living in outdoor stall)
-2 flakes Oat AM & PM
-1 flake Alfalfa AM & PM
-1 cup Purina Senior Feed
-1 quart Rice Bran Pellets
-3 cups dry Beet Pulp (I then soak it and it yields about a gallons worth)
-1 cup corn oil
-Consequin
-Vita Plus
-Elite Electrolytes
-access to salt block

MY QUESTIONS:
1) I'm finished off the last of the wheat bran, then changing over to rice bran. Should I buy the rice bran now and mix them to get her used to it?
2) Should I had beet pulp back into her diet? This packs on the pounds without her getting hot.
3) Should I add more hay to her diet? I need to be wary of alfalfa since she gets extra spunky if she has too much.
4) Would it be safe to give her Consequin again as a preventative for future lameness? She has stayed sound so far *knocks on wood* and I would like her to keep going.
5) Is Mare Plus a good supplement for her? Are there better ones out there?
6) May I add paprika to her diet for a luxurious black bay coat?
7) Should I add Platform Mare and Foal Feed or another broodmare focused feed to her diet? Platform is rice bran based, so would I feed this instead of rice bran pellets?
8) Should I add Platform Sport and Performance Horse Feed or another perfomance focused feed to her diet? Platform is beet pulp based, so would I feed this instead of beet pulp?
9) Should I add an electrolyte back into her diet? I don't think she needs it, but I might as ask.

*Some of these questions should be approached as "this-or-that." Example: She doesn't need both Performance and Mare and Foal Feeds!

Some Things to keep in mind:
-Winter is approaching so I want her warm since she will be living outside with just a sheet. Yes, I do live in California, but it does sometimes get below freezing here.
-She is a hot, thoroughbred mare. She has plenty of energy, but she still loses weight.
-Yes, she is pregnant, but only in her first trimester still. This means Ca isn't as crucial as it will be in the last trimester.
-There is such thing as oversupplementation.
-Her work schedule will be:

Monday: Off.
Tuesday: Light loosening session.
Wednesday: Let's learn something new!
Thursday: Lunging & Groundwork.
Friday: Re-enforce Wed's work.
Saturday: Re-enforcing training up until that date.
Sunday: Play day (light jumping, free jumping, gallop, long trail ride, hills..)

All advice will be greatly appreciated!

[SuZQuzie]

Bumping this up. I would really like to have some members' insights on this before tomorrow so that I may go to the Feed Store and get some more weight on this pony.

[jumpthemoon]

I think your feed program is far too complex for me. I don't like feeding wheat bran more than once a week, if at all. Rice bran can give a horse the runs if you feed as much as you have written. I am not an oil fan either.

Why not switch to the Peformance feed with beet pulp already in it. Feed around 4-6# (two-three large scoops) a day to start, you can add another scoop when she is further along in her pregnancy or if she looks to need more. Honestly she doesn't need all of that other 'stuff'. The Performance feed should have all the vitamins and minerals considering you feed some alfalfa hay and her needs will be met if you feed 6#+/day or so of fortified feed.

I wouldn't start her on an expensive joint supplement if she doesn't get stiff coming out of her stall or show any signs of needing it. I have fed Paprika in the past but stopped because it is a banned substance by the USEF.

I use Quest wormer rotated with an ivermectrin type wormer. I use the Quest in the late spring, and late fall and one other time. I worm about every six weeks. The Quest kills the 'encysted' worms the other wormers do not get. It is a huge key to an awesome coat and healthy horse.

I am a fan of the LMF feeds and some of the Med Vet joint supplements (Senoir Flex and Glucosamine XL plus MSM) and Conquer gel.

LMF Horse Feeds - the finest feeds for your horses health

[Cheeky Monkey]

The best thing for pregnant mares, and any hrose for that matter, is good quality hay. You dont want to over feed a pregnant mare and you never want a fat one. You are better off having her a bit skinny than fat, there would be way less chance of problems with the foal.
Get some good quality mixed alfalfaxgrass hay, a salt block and vitamins if you really want to...but if your hay is good, she doesnt even really need them. If you want to add something, add carrots and apples

PS- Why are you starting her in work again? Maybe if she doesnt hold weight well unless she stands around, she needs to just stand around and get light lunging a few times a week?

[SuZQuzie]

jumpthemoon:
I think you miss understood me with that second diet plan. That isn't how she is now, but how much she was getting to keep some weight on when in work. She is quite a hard keeper. She did fine with the rice bran before. A quart really isn't that much. The oil was simply another source of fat to keep her weight up.

How much is your measure of a scoop? What does # mean in measure? Pounds? Cups? Quarts? Parts? Penny is no longer a showing mare, so paprika would make no difference there. Any idea why is was banned?

I won't add Consequin.

She is on a regular worming plan recommended by the vet.

So why Perfomance with rice bran and not Mare and Foal with beet pulp? Just curious to your reasoning. And would this make her hot?

CM:
I highly doubt I can get this mare truly fat. So do you feel I should up the hay and add two flakes of orchard grass? Carrots and apples add weight to her?

I'm starting to work her again so that she remains strong through her topline. She doesn't hold weight unless she is standing around, but she gets extremely ansy if she is left in the pasture. Light lunging was okay, but she doesn't like it much. She is a mare that loves to be worked and enjoys the challenges that I present to her along with a varied routine.

***

Just to let everyone know, I don't feed Ed this much. He is such an easy keeper it's not even funny. Two flakes of oat morning and night and a cup of rice bran with consequin, electrolytes and omega horseshine. He wouldn't get the rice bran unless it was necessary to use it to get the "yucky stuff" down.

[jumpthemoon]

Good questions! Every scoop is going to vary. I use a large plastic one and a full scoop of the LMF Senior (which is what we feed our show horse) weighs in at around 2 1/2#. I keep my supplemental feed and supplements at home so I use gallon sized ziplock bags to set up his feed and supplements about once a week and then bring them out to the barn. I have weighed the bags before so I know how much I am feeding. In our 17 hand, 1400# show horse's case he currently gets only about 2# of the LMF Senior/daily with his two supplements.

By the way, feed should always be fed by weight not volume. So if you take feed home or bring a scale out to the barn you can figure out how much weight your horse is getting. If you worry about sand colic in your area I think a feed with the beet pulp base is good (I think it might work similar to sand clear though it's not proven but the fiber type is similar).

Does this help?

PS. Agoura Feed sells the LMF brand that I am so keen on.

[Cheeky Monkey]

IF you just want to add bulk, I would feed beet pulp over rice bran. Rice bran would be too much and too touchy with a foal, if you ask me. WBs are too prone to OCD, crooked legs etc.
I think more hay is much better for them than more grain. Good quality hay should have everything in it that she will need.
Apples and carrots are good for natural vit/min and the treat factor
And you will want to avoid a fat, out of shape mare for the crooked leg factor as well. Fat mares that stand around are more prone to having foals with crooked legs, as the foal is squished in the same spot all the time and never shifts or moves positions.

[SuZQuzie]

Originally Posted by Cheeky Monkey

And you will want to avoid a fat, out of shape mare for the crooked leg factor as well. Fat mares that stand around are more prone to having foals with crooked legs, as the foal is squished in the same spot all the time and never shifts or moves positions.

But she won't be fat or out of shape. She will be lean and in shape since, not only am I adding to her diet, but I'm doing so because I am increasing her exercise. I have never seen this mare fat. By tub, I mean I couldn't see her ribs, just feel them.

Here is her "tubby":

[JBandRio]

Originally Posted by SuZQuzie

After only two days of moderate work (only w/t/c transitions for maybe 30 minutes), she lost the tub and I'm seeing ribs. Not good.

It's a little concerning that she went from even a little tubby, to lightly ribby, in 2 days d

MY QUESTIONS:

1) I'm finished off the last of the wheat bran, then changing over to rice bran. Should I buy the rice bran now and mix them to get her used to it?

Wheat bran is almost worthless in a horse's diet, so yes, I'd change over to rice bran 1-2lb/day, no more.

2) Should I had beet pulp back into her diet? This packs on the pounds without her getting hot.

Not a bad idea unless too many calories becomes a concern, then I'd drop this instead of reducing hay.

3) Should I add more hay to her diet? I need to be wary of alfalfa since she gets extra spunky if she has too much.

Free choice hay should be the basis of just about any horse's diet. Grass hay is better for free choicing than alfalfa.

4) Would it be safe to give her Consequin again as a preventative for future lameness? She has stayed sound so far *knocks on wood* and I would like her to keep going.

I believe it is safe during pregnancy.

5) Is Mare Plus a good supplement for her? Are there better ones out there?

Much depends here on the analysis of your hay.

6) May I add paprika to her diet for a luxurious black bay coat?

I am pretty sure it's safe during pregnancy

7) Should I add Platform Mare and Foal Feed or another broodmare focused feed to her diet? Platform is rice bran based, so would I feed this instead of rice bran pellets?

You don't have to feed any commercial feed if you can balance the diet otherwise, based on your hay, through supplements and ration balancers. You'd have to feed a lot of a commercial fortified grain to meet the requirements anyway, and since that's generally not very healthy, you have to do that anyway.

8) Should I add Platform Sport and Performance Horse Feed or another perfomance focused feed to her diet? Platform is beet pulp based, so would I feed this instead of beet pulp?

If you had to choose between this and #7 I'd go with #7. But my caveats still stand

9) Should I add an electrolyte back into her diet? I don't think she needs it, but I might as ask.

I wouldn't bother, not with her level of work and where you are.

Some Things to keep in mind:

-Winter is approaching so I want her warm since she will be living outside with just a sheet. Yes, I do live in California, but it does sometimes get below freezing here.
-She is a hot, thoroughbred mare. She has plenty of energy, but she still loses weight.

Allowed to grow a winter coat, and given free choice hay and shelter, you may not need a blanket at all. Keep in mind that very often a sheet will just serve to lay the hair down, taking away that level of warmth, without replacing any of the warmth, much less adding to it. Because of that, a mid-weight blanket might be a better choice. Remember also, the horse in general is quite comfortable between about 30 and 60*, and it's not until the low 30's or so that they start to use calories to stay warm.

-Yes, she is pregnant, but only in her first trimester still. This means Ca isn't as crucial as it will be in the last trimester.

It's still necessary for HER overall health. With your balance of grass and alfalfa hay, calcium isn't much of a concern. Don't forget the other vital minerals though, such as copper and potassium and magnesium and others, that all can affect the health of the foal.

I'd put out free choice loose minerals, as well as her salt (loose is preferable to a block).

[JBandRio]

Ok, now that I understand what "tubby" meant here are some more thoughts:

Have you ruled out ulcers? That can account for lack of weight gain/hold.

Even if they aren't in the picture, I would be hesitant to give any, or more than a couple of pounds, or a grain product to her. IME, the harder keepers either need LOTS of grain to gain/maintain weight, which brings on other issues, or they need zero grain but lots of non-grain sources of calories, preferably a good bit coming from fat. This is where rice bran and BOSS and beet pulp come in very handy.