[Horsez]

Pocket is a Thoroughbred. He's green and needs some help in all area's. I will try to separate this as much as I can.

Biting

It needs to stop. He's not the kind of horse who will take a chuck out of your arm though. He likes to nibble on my shoulder. I don't mind that, but then starts nipping harder and this will turn into biting. He is getting head-shy from other people hitting him when he does that. I don't know how I can tell him to stop it without making him flip out. Sometimes I will yank the lead rope and say a firm no, but he freaks out at that too.

He also likes to chew on his reins. I sometimes try to pull them out of his mouth, but he wont open up so I then have to freak him out by slapping his shoulder (Never his face) or yanking the reins out.

Jumping

In my lease you are not allowed to jump, but you CAN do poles and I have been working with him. He used to run to the jump then come to a screeching halt, but he has gotten a lot better. I still need to tune it up a little, to let him know you don't have to bolt at everything.

Arena

When I am cantering him in a circle, he stays the same pace. Nice and easy. How I want it to be. But when I turn a corner, he sees the long-side of the arena and speeds up. I pull him back, but he is now all choppy in his canter stride. I add my leg, but now it's a fast choppy canter stride. How do I fix this? I want him to have the nice relaxed long strided canter he had before. He doesn't do it at the walk or trot, only the canter.

Pocket is in good health. Nothing is hurting him. The saddle and bridle fit. The girth isn't pinching him either.

Thank you for reading. I hope you guys can help me.

[Dancers Mom]

Originally Posted by Horsez

Pocket is a Thoroughbred. He's green and needs some help in all area's. I will try to separate this as much as I can.

Biting

It needs to stop. He's not the kind of horse who will take a chuck out of your arm though. He likes to nibble on my shoulder. I don't mind that, but then starts nipping harder and this will turn into biting. He is getting head-shy from other people hitting him when he does that. I don't know how I can tell him to stop it without making him flip out. Sometimes I will yank the lead rope and say a firm no, but he freaks out at that too.

He also likes to chew on his reins. I sometimes try to pull them out of his mouth, but he wont open up so I then have to freak him out by slapping his shoulder (Never his face) or yanking the reins out.

Jumping

In my lease you are not allowed to jump, but you CAN do poles and I have been working with him. He used to run to the jump then come to a screeching halt, but he has gotten a lot better. I still need to tune it up a little, to let him know you don't have to bolt at everything.

Arena

When I am cantering him in a circle, he stays the same pace. Nice and easy. How I want it to be. But when I turn a corner, he sees the long-side of the arena and speeds up. I pull him back, but he is now all choppy in his canter stride. I add my leg, but now it's a fast choppy canter stride. How do I fix this? I want him to have the nice relaxed long strided canter he had before. He doesn't do it at the walk or trot, only the canter.

Pocket is in good health. Nothing is hurting him. The saddle and bridle fit. The girth isn't pinching him either.

Thank you for reading. I hope you guys can help me.

Try poking him on the side of his muzzle with your finger tips, I do that with my OTTB. Each time she comes back with it I do it alittle harder. It may take a while but it works for me. Now I keep one eye on her while grooming and I can say, "Ahhhh" and look her in the eye. She only seems to do this at the crossties, I think it is more of a grooming thing.

[gluey33]

Originally Posted by Horsez

Pocket is a Thoroughbred. He's green and needs some help in all area's. I will try to separate this as much as I can.

Biting

It needs to stop. He's not the kind of horse who will take a chuck out of your arm though. He likes to nibble on my shoulder. I don't mind that, but then starts nipping harder and this will turn into biting. He is getting head-shy from other people hitting him when he does that. I don't know how I can tell him to stop it without making him flip out. Sometimes I will yank the lead rope and say a firm no, but he freaks out at that too.

You will have to stop letting him nibble. When he atarts to nibble make a growly noise first and if he persists then the slap on the shoulder. Need to stop him before he really gets started.

He also likes to chew on his reins. I sometimes try to pull them out of his mouth, but he wont open up so I then have to freak him out by slapping his shoulder (Never his face) or yanking the reins out.

Young horse thing. Similar treatment and maybe some anti-crib stuff on the reins for a while.

Jumping

In my lease you are not allowed to jump, but you CAN do poles and I have been working with him. He used to run to the jump then come to a screeching halt, but he has gotten a lot better. I still need to tune it up a little, to let him know you don't have to bolt at everything.

Doing grid patterns and lots of repetition is good for this.

Arena

When I am cantering him in a circle, he stays the same pace. Nice and easy. How I want it to be. But when I turn a corner, he sees the long-side of the arena and speeds up. I pull him back, but he is now all choppy in his canter stride. I add my leg, but now it's a fast choppy canter stride. How do I fix this? I want him to have the nice relaxed long strided canter he had before. He doesn't do it at the walk or trot, only the canter.

Try some transitions. As you come around the corner, take him back to a trot ,walk or even stop and then ask him again for the canter. If he goes to race of do it again.

Pocket is in good health. Nothing is hurting him. The saddle and bridle fit. The girth isn't pinching him either.

Thank you for reading. I hope you guys can help me.

Time and patience are the main things you need. These are pretty typical green behaviours. Good luck.

[rascalboy]

For the biting, no need to smack. Just poke in the nose, and push his muzzle away. With my mare, she doesn't get head shy, so she gets a smack on the nose, but with the horse next, he is very spooky, so we just poke/shove, and he's fine with it.

For the jumping/polos, simply walk over it. Just keep walking over it, till he does it calmly. Then trot slowly up to it. Do not look at it. (It might help if you put it in a circle. Just keep doing a circle at one end of the ring, and have the pole placed so that he has to step over it. Make sure you're not doing a two-point. Just sit up straight (I can't post through polos. I get her all off tempo, so I just stand up.) It might also help if you have a few poles in a row. I believe that 4 feet in between each one should do, and maybe up to 4 1/2' for trotting. That way he can't bolt after, because he still has poles to go up. Just keep looking up.

And for the canter, I'd say to keep him on a circle at one end of the ring, till he calms down. Works with the crazy TB. Make sure you're not leaning forward much, or else it might give him an excuse to go faster.
Another thing that might work, is holding the outside rein. Instead of pulling back on both reins, get his head bent slightly to the inside (if you can't get him to do it, work on it at the walk/trot) and use the inside rein to hold it there. Don't pull; just hold. Then the outside is pulled back till he slows. Use your knees and squeeze, which will help slow him down.
Have fun!

[StarfireArizona]

My 7 year old OTTB gelding had every evil vice known to man.....and swinging his head around to bite was one of them. He never made contact or even came close, but just the effort was annoying & dangerous. Finally the head swinging stopped & he would just put his mouth near your hands or knees waiting for a reaction.

No amount of slapping, shoulder or neck swatting did a bloody thing. What worked for me, and I am still trying to figure out exactly why, is that I spent a lot of time standing next to him grooming, & I could tell the very second he was going to try so I just pushed his head away from me & made him back away a few steps. After about a couple dozen or so times, he really stopped trying. It didn't end completely for some time, but there were far less attempts. As Clint Anderson says, "they can't bite you if they are out of your personal space". Now I hand feed treats without a single concern.

As far as chewing on the reins.....I am clueless on how to stop that. This same horse of mine grabs the lead every few seconds when I am working close to him, and has just about destroyed a set of leather reins. If it is close enough to get in his mouth, that is right where it ends up. Frustrating, juvenile habits On everything but the leather tack I put liquid dish soap to make it lousy tasting. It keeps him and my colt from chewing on the lead when tied, but nasty to handle & work with.

[Circle C]

Originally Posted by Horsez

Pocket is a Thoroughbred. He's green and needs some help in all area's. I will try to separate this as much as I can.

Biting

It needs to stop. He's not the kind of horse who will take a chuck out of your arm though. He likes to nibble on my shoulder. I don't mind that, but then starts nipping harder and this will turn into biting. He is getting head-shy from other people hitting him when he does that. I don't know how I can tell him to stop it without making him flip out. Sometimes I will yank the lead rope and say a firm no, but he freaks out at that too.
*Don't let him get that close to you. He should stay out of your space. Do some ground work and gain some respect. Make him back out of your space if he gets to close. Horses are too big to be invading your space.

He also likes to chew on his reins. I sometimes try to pull them out of his mouth, but he wont open up so I then have to freak him out by slapping his shoulder (Never his face) or yanking the reins out.
*Put a caveson on him.

Jumping

In my lease you are not allowed to jump, but you CAN do poles and I have been working with him. He used to run to the jump then come to a screeching halt, but he has gotten a lot better. I still need to tune it up a little, to let him know you don't have to bolt at everything.
*AFTER he learns to lope around at the speed you want, then go pack to the poles at a trot. When he's good at the trot, move to the lope. Do the same thing if he speeds up..;. shut him down with a one rein stop.

Arena

When I am cantering him in a circle, he stays the same pace. Nice and easy. How I want it to be. But when I turn a corner, he sees the long-side of the arena and speeds up. I pull him back, but he is now all choppy in his canter stride. I add my leg, but now it's a fast choppy canter stride. How do I fix this? I want him to have the nice relaxed long strided canter he had before. He doesn't do it at the walk or trot, only the canter.
*Lope him around the arena. Let him go wherever he chooses...don't steer him. Keep him on a loose rein and when he speeds up, shut him down with a one rein stop. Make him back a few steps then go on at the lope again. It may take some time, but he will eventually lope around on a loose rein at the speed you want.

Pocket is in good health. Nothing is hurting him. The saddle and bridle fit. The girth isn't pinching him either.

Thank you for reading. I hope you guys can help me.

See my advice above^

[Horsez]

Thanks everyone. He is not young though. He is 14, but hasn't had the proper training as you can see.

Originally Posted by rascalboy

Another thing that might work, is holding the outside rein. Instead of pulling back on both reins, get his head bent slightly to the inside (if you can't get him to do it, work on it at the walk/trot) and use the inside rein to hold it there. Don't pull; just hold. Then the outside is pulled back till he slows. Use your knees and squeeze, which will help slow him down.
Have fun!

That might work. Thank you.

[buck1173]

Biting It needs to stop. He's not the kind of horse who will take a chuck out of your arm though.

Eventually, he might.

He likes to nibble on my shoulder. I don't mind that,

bad bad bad!!!! no nibbling or even mouthing (lipping, licking, etc... even nuzzling if he's really chronic) should be allowed by him...none!!!!

but then starts nipping harder and this will turn into biting.

^^^ thats why... a nuzzle, turns to a lip, turns to a 'love nibble' turns to a nibble nibble, turns to a nip, turns to one day a chunk is missing from your shoulder when you least expect it... for all the chronic biters I've had, I'm seriously shocked I still have 10 fingers!!!!!

He is getting head-shy from other people hitting him when he does that.

as he's a lease, and is being handled by others you will have a tougher time than most breaking this habit simply because there are others that may undermine your best efforts. But don't let that deter you! just be more resolute!

I don't know how I can tell him to stop it without making him flip out.

Actually, I used to purposely flip horses out that bit... ie, if I got bitten, I attacked them to scare the living tar out of them on purpose. However, though I will still use that trick ever so occasionally, its a very tough trick to really employ effectively as you have to so completely and utterly terrify the horse that he never even dares think of biting again... the problem is, that if he's handled after that in such a way that he feels biting is a proper thing to do, then the effort to scare him has gone out the window.... and may actually come back to haunt a person... so, I never suggest to people this trick.

Sometimes I will yank the lead rope and say a firm no, but he freaks out at that too.

your horse sounds headshy... just my opinion, I never like a yank to the head for any reason under any circumstance... well, 99% of circumstances.

You've been given good advice, and I particularly like Starfire's as its quietly authoritive... your horse doesn't sound particularly aggressive.

However, I'm going to ramble a bit....

imho, and again, its just my humble opinion, that biting is a symptom of a larger problem (having some deja vu here).

Horses bite in an effort to express themselves. They might not be liking whats going on, they might be anticipating pain or something that will be happening thats painful or scary, they might be nervous, or they might be asserting or attempting to assert themselves. A habit is a possibility too I suppose....

the real key is to figure out why the horse is biting in the first place, and fix that.

anyhow, John Lyons changed his tune about dealing w/ a biting horse a few years back and now offers this solution: for a mouthy, nosey or nippy horse, when he goes to invade your space with his nose, grab the nose and love it to death. ie, stick your fingers in his nostrils, rub his muzzle just hard enough that its annoying, flip his lips, stick your fingers in his mouth, etc, etc etc, basically annoy the heck out of the horse in a fun way, but be really annoying about it... not so kissy kissy, not super rough, just rough enough that its not really enjoyable. The horse will eventually pull his nose away from you. Everytime he sticks his nose in your space, annoy him with love, and eventually, with repetition, he'll decide he doesn't like sticking his nose there.

It does work, it did work on my mustang... here's a pict from years and years ago (my mustang was such a chronic biter that he had signs on his stall to stay away. Before I bought him, he actually gave a girl a permanent scar on her shoulder from an attack... as it happens, it was rumored that he was being sent to auction for that act, so I bought him).

in this photo, my horse came over to nose me for my coffee, I was just grabbing him to annoy him away.

Also, my morgan, when I got him, was a horrible biter and very mouthy... he also detested worming... so I used to keep an empty wormer syringe in my back pocket all the time... when he went to nip/nose me, I practice worming... He's no longer mouthy, I can trust him around children, and worms lovely now. Good for the dentist too...

Also, handfeeding can perpetuate and ruin your best efforts. It is possible to have a nice horse that is respectful and can be hand fed, but its hard. don't hand feed if you can.. a treat tastes just as good in a bucket or on the ground as it does from your hand. Hand feeding is a very hard habit to break. (btw, the reason hand feeding is bad is because the horse is literally being rewarded with a tidbit for having invaded your space... when you look at it from their point of view, it makes complete sense).

He also likes to chew on his reins. I sometimes try to pull them out of his mouth, but he wont open up so I then have to freak him out by slapping his shoulder (Never his face) or yanking the reins out.

first, don't try to pull them out, or slap him or yank or anything... at best, you're just ruining your tack... stick your thumb in his mouth and open his mouth and remove your reins.

I have a peculiar theory on rein/lead rope chewing... now, granted horses investigate things with their mouths, and mouthy horses all the moreso.... but I've been noticing that chronic rein/lead chewers are expressing nervousness or dissatisfaction or boredom. I had a horse once that I was drilling too hard, patterns over and over... the horse became a rein chewer. I woke up one day and realized how I was boring my horse, and stopped drilling him... a week or so later, he stopped chewing on the reins.

I also had a horse once that didn't have much interest in dealing w/ people as people always were too firm with poor timing around him (he was a sensitive sort). When presented with more firmness than he understood, he'd nervously start chewing on whatever was attached to his head. When I got him to understand his job a bit better, and he started looking forward to going to work, chewing stopped.

A couple months into training my morgan, I ran into a major roadblock with mounted work. He'd tried to shut down in any way he could, and I worked hard to combat his shutting down. He started by chewing on the rein, then turning to chew on my stirrup, then eventually started dragging me over to the wooden jump standards and started gnawing on them. it was his way of doing the ol Dorothy routine "there's no place like home, there's no place like home..." I wasn't presenting myself to him in a way that worked for him... because he couldn't untack himself and leave, he opted for a mental vacation. I eventually got the message and things are vastly better now.

but still, with this morgan, when he's tied, and becomes nervous or frantic, the first thing he does is start chewing on the tie. As if he's tried to untie himself, or pacify, or mentally escape... still haven't gotten that bit sorted out just right yet...

Finally, my own mustang, when i first got him, was very overbitted because he was a runaway. Being a clueless first time horse owner, I rode the same bit, with un g-dly heavy hands he would lip and chew relentlessly, chew the reins, chew the lead, chew at the curb chain if he could while being bridled (why he always just accepted the bridle like a gem I'll never know).... it wasn't till a year or so later that I had the nerve to try different bits/head gear that his chronic chewing stopped.

thats just my story, hope it helps...

[sunrisegurl146]

just to throw in my bit to what buck is saying...i hand feed my girl sunrise (her picture is my profile picture) but before i fed her from my hand we had worked on respect on space..she was home bred and grew up with the pple that bred her mother when i got her she was super spoiled and she had to learn what respecting kristine's space meant
now we come far enough all i have to do is point away from my person and say "go" and she leaves till i invite her back..also i do not allow excess feeding from the hand...only if i don't want to bring in a bucket while doing a really good lesson..ex. when road training from the ground and the school bus goes by (this was her first time on the road) and she completly ignored it than i gave her a treat from my hand.

also when i want her to stop what shes doing like.. trying to bite me i snap my fingers of clap my hands together i find this worked with her. it was something unexpected that she was startled enough that she would stop trying to bit me. so now i clap my hands or snap my fingers while saying NO. note: this doesn't affect her when other people or clapping or snapping their fingers while talking or something...she knows when her behavior is not what i would like it to be

ok that was a long bit to throw in lol

[Horsez]

Originally Posted by buck1173

Eventually, he might.

bad bad bad!!!! no nibbling or even mouthing (lipping, licking, etc... even nuzzling if he's really chronic) should be allowed by him...none!!!!

^^^ thats why... a nuzzle, turns to a lip, turns to a 'love nibble' turns to a nibble nibble, turns to a nip, turns to one day a chunk is missing from your shoulder when you least expect it... for all the chronic biters I've had, I'm seriously shocked I still have 10 fingers!!!!!

as he's a lease, and is being handled by others you will have a tougher time than most breaking this habit simply because there are others that may undermine your best efforts. But don't let that deter you! just be more resolute!

Actually, I used to purposely flip horses out that bit... ie, if I got bitten, I attacked them to scare the living tar out of them on purpose. However, though I will still use that trick ever so occasionally, its a very tough trick to really employ effectively as you have to so completely and utterly terrify the horse that he never even dares think of biting again... the problem is, that if he's handled after that in such a way that he feels biting is a proper thing to do, then the effort to scare him has gone out the window.... and may actually come back to haunt a person... so, I never suggest to people this trick.

your horse sounds headshy... just my opinion, I never like a yank to the head for any reason under any circumstance... well, 99% of circumstances.

You've been given good advice, and I particularly like Starfire's as its quietly authoritive... your horse doesn't sound particularly aggressive.

However, I'm going to ramble a bit....

imho, and again, its just my humble opinion, that biting is a symptom of a larger problem (having some deja vu here).

Horses bite in an effort to express themselves. They might not be liking whats going on, they might be anticipating pain or something that will be happening thats painful or scary, they might be nervous, or they might be asserting or attempting to assert themselves. A habit is a possibility too I suppose....

anyhow, John Lyons changed his tune about dealing w/ a biting horse a few years back and now offers this solution: for a mouthy, nosey or nippy horse, when he goes to invade your space with his nose, grab the nose and love it to death. ie, stick your fingers in his nostrils, rub his muzzle just hard enough that its annoying, flip his lips, stick your fingers in his mouth, etc, etc etc, basically annoy the heck out of the horse in a fun way, but be really annoying about it... not so kissy kissy, not super rough, just rough enough that its not really enjoyable. The horse will eventually pull his nose away from you. Everytime he sticks his nose in your space, annoy him with love, and eventually, with repetition, he'll decide he doesn't like sticking his nose there.

It does work, it did work on my mustang... here's a pict from years and years ago (my mustang was such a chronic biter that he had signs on his stall to stay away. Before I bought him, he actually gave a girl a permanent scar on her shoulder from an attack... as it happens, it was rumored that he was being sent to auction for that act, so I bought him).

in this photo, my horse came over to nose me for my coffee, I was just grabbing him to annoy him away.

Also, my morgan, when I got him, was a horrible biter and very mouthy... he also detested worming... so I used to keep an empty wormer syringe in my back pocket all the time... when he went to nip/nose me, I practice worming... He's no longer mouthy, I can trust him around children, and worms lovely now. Good for the dentist too...

Also, handfeeding can perpetuate and ruin your best efforts. It is possible to have a nice horse that is respectful and can be hand fed, but its hard. don't hand feed if you can.. a treat tastes just as good in a bucket or on the ground as it does from your hand. Hand feeding is a very hard habit to break. (btw, the reason hand feeding is bad is because the horse is literally being rewarded with a tidbit for having invaded your space... when you look at it from their point of view, it makes complete sense).


first, don't try to pull them out, or slap him or yank or anything... at best, you're just ruining your tack... stick your thumb in his mouth and open his mouth and remove your reins.

I have a peculiar theory on rein/lead rope chewing... now, granted horses investigate things with their mouths, and mouthy horses all the moreso.... but I've been noticing that chronic rein/lead chewers are expressing nervousness or dissatisfaction or boredom. I had a horse once that I was drilling too hard, patterns over and over... the horse became a rein chewer. I woke up one day and realized how I was boring my horse, and stopped drilling him... a week or so later, he stopped chewing on the reins.

I also had a horse once that didn't have much interest in dealing w/ people as people always were too firm with poor timing around him (he was a sensitive sort). When presented with more firmness than he understood, he'd nervously start chewing on whatever was attached to his head. When I got him to understand his job a bit better, and he started looking forward to going to work, chewing stopped.

A couple months into training my morgan, I ran into a major roadblock with mounted work. He'd tried to shut down in any way he could, and I worked hard to combat his shutting down. He started by chewing on the rein, then turning to chew on my stirrup, then eventually started dragging me over to the wooden jump standards and started gnawing on them. it was his way of doing the ol Dorothy routine "there's no place like home, there's no place like home..." I wasn't presenting myself to him in a way that worked for him... because he couldn't untack himself and leave, he opted for a mental vacation. I eventually got the message and things are vastly better now.

but still, with this morgan, when he's tied, and becomes nervous or frantic, the first thing he does is start chewing on the tie. As if he's tried to untie himself, or pacify, or mentally escape... still haven't gotten that bit sorted out just right yet...

Finally, my own mustang, when i first got him, was very overbitted because he was a runaway. Being a clueless first time horse owner, I rode the same bit, with un g-dly heavy hands he would lip and chew relentlessly, chew the reins, chew the lead, chew at the curb chain if he could while being bridled (why he always just accepted the bridle like a gem I'll never know).... it wasn't till a year or so later that I had the nerve to try different bits/head gear that his chronic chewing stopped.

thats just my story, hope it helps...

I love this advice. Thank you!