[sorrell]

Originally Posted by BlingRacer

I did not drink as a teenager, except with my parents permission. They allowed me to have champagane on new years usually and occasionally a small glass of wine cooler on the 4th of July. I figured out real quick from that that drinking simply wasn't all that interesting, and to this day I very rarely drink (and never to excess).

America promotes a wild, forbidden fruit culture around alcohol leading to a lot of underage drinking....It is interesting to note that countries who do not have this concept of alcohol have significantly lower levels of alcoholism, teenager drunkeness, etc. When kids grow up having a half glass of wine with dinner, they don't see anything naughty, fun, or rebellious about drinking behind their parents backs.

I think you have to look at alcoholic content of the drink too though. In countries where wine is drunk with meals, it is not quite the same as drinking shots or jello shooters, where a party/consume lots attitude encourages the alchohol to be the prime entertainment, or main purpose of the gathering. It isn't so much about being "naughty" or wrong, but about the importance or excitedness of it.
When my older friends... maybe mid fifites, talk about margaritas, it is like hearing a kid talk about going to Disneyland. They get so excited about drinking and they tell me they don't drink to excess, but I have heard them tell others about their hangovers and how they drank more than they should. So think this is a factor with teens too - the excitedness over getting a buzz and "unwinding" or drinking away all their problems seems to lead to a lot of issues, and I have several Dutch friends who are currently battling alcoholism and it caused one to split up his marriage, so it is an issue with open countries as well as closed ones.

[allison finch]

Originally Posted by BlingRacer

I did not drink as a teenager, except with my parents permission. They allowed me to have champagane on new years usually and occasionally a small glass of wine cooler on the 4th of July. I figured out real quick from that that drinking simply wasn't all that interesting, and to this day I very rarely drink (and never to excess).

America promotes a wild, forbidden fruit culture around alcohol leading to a lot of underage drinking....It is interesting to note that countries who do not have this concept of alcohol have significantly lower levels of alcoholism, teenager drunkeness, etc. When kids grow up having a half glass of wine with dinner, they don't see anything naughty, fun, or rebellious about drinking behind their parents backs.

Not true at all. Teenage alcoholism in Europe is terrible. That is a myth that there is no problem. Some countries (even Iceland) are reporting a real problem with it. While I agree about the forbidden fruit temptation, easy access to alcohol has not proven to be an answer. Not sure what is

Google it. Here is the first link I found on "teenage alcoholism in Europe ;

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7093143.stm


I have mixed feelings about 21 being the legal limit. I saw so much death in destruction by drunk teens, but...they can kill people in wars but not drink a beer? Our state had a tiered system 18-21=beer 21 and up liquor. well, ETOH is ETOH no matter how it is delivered to the body. How will you tell if they are drunk by beer or what? They stopped that and are now thinking of dropping legal age to 18.
I think if they lower the drinking age, they should still require .00 if they are in a car driving. I mean NO alcohol in their system. Would that not try to enforce SOME accountability?
Teens, what do you think?

[sorrell]

Originally Posted by allison finch

Not true at all. Teenage alcoholism in Europe is terrible. That is a myth that there is no problem. Some countries (even Iceland) are reporting a real problem with it. While I agree about the forbidden fruit temptation, easy access to alcohol has not proven to be an answer. Not sure what is.

For me, the "cure" to underage drinking is to send your kids to a party where all their friends are drinking and have them not drink. Get them to take a video/voice camera with them and tape all their friends and ask them questions as the night goes on. Then, have another party, invite all those teens back and have them tell how much "fun" they had and how "cool" they were at the party. Then, show them the video and see if they still think they had fun and looked cool! Reality bites big time!!!
Most people I know who drink are not aware of how stupid they look and act while drinking. My friends used to not be able to remember what they did. An in-your-face dose of reality and offering alternatives to having fun without drinking that are not lame, but encourage self esteem and caring about others seems to be one of the best ways to combat drinking in teens or adults.
If you could choose between doing a good deed that will help others for years to come or having a night off getting stinking drunk for fun... which would you do, which would make you feel better about who you are as a human being? That approach is very effective, though the temptations to drink and be an "adult" are still going to lure teens, but the more knowledge they have and the more opportunities they have to do something fun that does not involve self endulgence, I think the greater chance of beating the odds and getting hooked on behaviors that do more harm than good.

[sorrell]

Originally Posted by allison finch

I have mixed feelings about 21 being the legal limit. I saw so much death in destruction by drunk teens, but...they can kill people in wars but not drink a beer? Our state had a tiered system 18-21=beer 21 and up liquor. well, ETOH is ETOH no matter how it is delivered to the body. How will you tell if they are drunk by beer or what? They stopped that and are now thinking of dropping legal age to 18.
I think if they lower the drinking age, they should still require .00 if they are in a car driving. I mean NO alcohol in their system. Would that not try to enforce SOME accountability?
Teens, what do you think?

Not a teen, but I think controlled drinking at 18 should be legal in a private home for teens or in a setting where they will not be going out on the street. In otherwords, no 18 year olds allowed to drink in bars and no drunk driving no matter what your age, but yeah, I don't see where three years makes that much difference in whether you are going to drink to excess and get behind the wheel.
Still, I would not want to see the law changed. It is sort of like speed limits. 35 may seem slow, but you know people are going to do 45 thinking they will not get pulled over, so if you raise the limit to 45 to accomodate that, then they will start doing 55! So, better safe than sorry, and honestly, I do not think that fighting in a war makes you need a beer to relax. Drink a hot cup of tea or a warm glass of milk then, or one of many non-alcholic beers out there.

[allison finch]

Originally Posted by sorrell

and honestly, I do not think that fighting in a war makes you need a beer to relax. Drink a hot cup of tea or a warm glass of milk then, or one of many non-alcholic beers out there.

It's not about drinking to relax, or......
It's about our feeling that we can give a teen a gun, teach him to kill,hope he has "discretion", send them out assuming they can adequately use enough discretion to know whom to kill...etc.

Should we not assume that if we can trust them with that, we should trust them to know when to drink?

I'm not advocating for it, at all. As stated, I've seen to much carnage as both an ex paramedic and, now a cop. Just offering another idea.

[Taxi Jumper]

Originally Posted by sorrell

I drank underaged. My parents were clueless. I never came home drunk or smelling like alcohol. Did come home smelling like cigarettes and always said my friends had been smoking, got lectured, threatened that I could not see them again, and still went out with them.
I don't think punishing kids for drinking or doing drugs really works. I think showing them evidence of what drinking and drugs can do to you can make a difference though. I think I would take my drinker to a court case where kids drank and killed someone while driving, or to a rehab facility, or let them visit with an alcholic and see how pathetic it is to cling to something that causes so much pain and suffering.
I also think that if you are a parent who drinks, you cannot lecture your kids about not drinking.
My parents did not drink and did not keep any kind of alcohol in the house, but my friend's parents did and she was constantly taking a beer when they had a party and watering down the whisky and her parents were clueless too.
If someone is sipping on a high ball and lecturing you about being too young to drink, it is kind of pointless.
As for responsible drinking. I think that is a rarity among teens and have not seen much of it in adults either! I'm always shocked at parents who let their kids drink at home or have parties with alcohol. I can see a sip of champaign or quarter cup of weak wine with a holiday meal or something for older kids, but my nephews were both allowed to drink underage and both binge drank later in life, despite being taught the dangers of it, so... kinda hard to tell what will work.
I think in the end, each person has to decide for themselves, but it can't hurt to show teens the bad side of drinking in hopes they will choose not to drink.

My parents drink (a glass of wine every night, occasionally more) and they still told me not to drink underage. There is a difference between parents that drink telling their legal children not to drink, but parents who drink can have a valid point in telling underage people not to drink.

Just because my parents drink a glass of wine doesn't mean they shouldn't be able to tell my 16 year old brother not to drink. That would be silly.

As for me, I started drinking when I was 18. However, I was always up front about it and my parents knew. I would never come home drunk though, if I am drinking I just stay with a friend because I am still underage and that would set a bad example for my brother. I am about 2 months shy of 21.

[megan_and_osena]

I'm noe 19 and i remember I started drinking probably when I was about 14 or 15. It wasn't often but I remember me and a group of my friends would go into downtown minneapolis and hit the hottest bars and clubs. It was like a game for us, like who could get the most guys to buy them drinks in a night. Looking back its really pathetic but it was fun. I think more highschool kids drink and party then most people realize. Also, just as a side note, it's never the kids you expect it to be. If you think you have a great well rounded smart kid who would never touch the stuff, chances are they're probably more likely than anybody else.

[sorrell]

Originally Posted by allison finch

It's not about drinking to relax, or......
It's about our feeling that we can give a teen a gun, teach him to kill,hope he has "discretion", send them out assuming they can adequately use enough discretion to know whom to kill...etc.

Should we not assume that if we can trust them with that, we should trust them to know when to drink?

I'm not advocating for it, at all. As stated, I've seen to much carnage as both an ex paramedic and, now a cop. Just offering another idea.

Considering all the guys I have dated who were in the military, I wouldn't trust them with a gun or a beer. They are no less mature than any other person in or out of the military and in my experience, were less able to control their urges than my college bound beaus. I don't think anyone can "earn" the right to drink based on how tough their life is. In fact, I think it should be the opposite, that drinking is something people who can't cope take up to drown their thoughts and feelings, rather than deal with them.
Coming from a long line of abusive drinkers, I am not at all pro-liquor though. 99% of my friends are drinkers (social and other). I don't see the appeal in it. I can socialize with a bottle of water on the running track better than at a bar with a beer.

[shepherd406]

Originally Posted by sorrell

Considering all the guys I have dated who were in the military, I wouldn't trust them with a gun or a beer. They are no less mature than any other person in or out of the military and in my experience, were less able to control their urges than my college bound beaus. I don't think anyone can "earn" the right to drink based on how tough their life is. In fact, I think it should be the opposite, that drinking is something people who can't cope take up to drown their thoughts and feelings, rather than deal with them.
Coming from a long line of abusive drinkers, I am not at all pro-liquor though. 99% of my friends are drinkers (social and other). I don't see the appeal in it. I can socialize with a bottle of water on the running track better than at a bar with a beer.

Amen. I'm active duty in the Marines. These guys mature about 5 years SLOWER.

We lost a guy in my shop in October of 2007. He got in toruble drinking underage & driving his motorcycle the weekend of Columbus Day.

2 weeks later he somehow got the keys to his bike back. That night, they were drinking & having fun. Someone ****** him off, so he jumped on his bike, in nothing but shorts, & took off down the road.

I got a wake up call in my room @ around 2am. "Hey Shepherd. You need to drive us to Greenville. Edmister wrecked his bike. You're the only sober one here."

Well, he survived a week. When your head meets a stop sign at about 80mph, the sign usually wins.

Today, October 31st, he would've been turning 22 years old. He left behind a young daughter.

I went to the memorial, which of course, we organized. I saw grown men, very mean grown men, in tears. I hope no one has to go through that. Ever. I held it together until Taps. I lost it after that.


Bottom line is: no matter what the drinking age is, people are still going to do it. They see it as cool & fun. I drank underage maybe a total of 4 times. Even after joining the Corps at 18. I'm 22 now. And I very rarely drink, & even then it's maybe one & I'm done.

Why do I stay out of trouble? I am still, to this day, afraid of disappointing my mom, dad, & especially my pap.

Most kids my age & younger don't give one care about anyone but themselves. I see it everyday. Until the parenting problems are addressed, this problem will only get worse.

If I had been caught drinking underage? My mom would've backhanded me & grounded me.

[GeM]

I think parents should encourage responsible drinking.
Of all my friends growing up, the ones who drank with their parents developed a more responsible outlook on drinking, whereas friends whose parents shunned drinking are some of the most out of control drinkers I know.
I think when parents fervently forbid something, later on their children will go buck wild (like in college or when they've moved from home) because they don't have their parents telling them what to do anymore.