[JKetsche]

I don't believe it's okay. That's not to say unregistered is bad--I recognize that there are plenty of grade horses that are fantastic. However, there are plenty of registered or registerable horses that are equally fantastic. Breed those, not the grades. My friend recently sold a JC TB who had evented Novice, would easily do jumpers to 3'6", was fantastic on the trail, and was sound, healthy, etc--only 12 years old--for $700 (she paid 4500 for him a few years ago). Why in all the world would anybody pay anything significant for a grade horse when they can get a solid trail horse that also has considerable jump training for that little?

[Jenje!]

Originally Posted by Kinzam

Sometimes I fantasise about killing her off or "accidentally" leaving the gate open.

No, I don't think it's "okay" to breed grade horses.

The only exception to that is if the resulting foal will have AT LEAST a 1/2 registration... such as half Arabian with AHA or Lazy F's half Welsh ponies.

[doublebarr]

I have no problems with someone breeding QUALITY grade horses that have a use. I perfer my registered QH's as we also like to do breed shows and build the reputation of our horses. But, I do know some excellent breeders who will breed a grade mare or two becasue of their excellent attitude and the way they throw good minded, working foals. I have yet to see one of these foals go to anything but a working home. That is responsible breeding, even if it is *gasp* grade horses. However, I do not agree that willy-nilly breeding anything out there that has overies or testicles is right.

Just like a poster before said, drafts are often bred grade to grade, because they are proven working horses and have a deffinate market. Same with a lot of rodeo horses. They may not be registered, but their ability to pass on their abilities and temperment makes them breeding worthy.

I think it's more on an individual, case by case basis to say it is or is not right. But I do think there are way more horses, both grade and registered, that are bred that should never be allowed to pass on their genes.

[Peg D]

Excellant topic!
My answer is no, its not OK to breed horses that are not registered.
Mostly for health issues.
What if we are breeding HYPP positive animals? We are working hard on getting rid of that and you just don't know what you get in those circumstances.....
Now I am moving over to the other side of my mouth and say this.
Dually is a non registerable gelding. He is mine and will never be sold.......
He was born to Dreamer my registered paint but came out of a HUGE black and white stud.....which we purposely bred to about 8-9 years ago.
I think he inherited his massive bone structure from that unregistered stallion.
But he is a very nice paint, registered or not. He is awesome! this is Dually. Which tells me I need a better picture of him too. He really does have 'cow bones' on him and I like that.

[breezebayou]

Just like I mentioned in my earlier post, as in the dog purebred world, there is a much greater chance to pass down similar genes when line breeding, in breeding or any of the other practices that some breeding ranches will do. In fact when there is a desirable trait those horses are more closely bred to try and keep closer to the desired. That in fact makes it more possible for poor genes to match up. If you take 2 completely unrelated horses, its a lot less likely that you will have genetics that are similar.

Dogs now that they are bred for conformation instead of smarts or what they are intended for, likely turn out without much brains. Take for instance the Irish setter, its brains have been bred out for a long time, and its hard to find a good bred puppy.

as I said before, breeding just hilly nilly in any species isnt smart.. But who are we to decide that any of God's creatures are better than other, just because we decided that ones hips or head "look" better. JMHO

[Jenje!]

Originally Posted by breezebayou

If you take 2 completely unrelated horses, its a lot less likely that you will have genetics that are similar.

With a grade horse, you have no way of knowing whether they are related or unrelated to another horse at all, let alone to another grade horse. HYPP and SCID are manageable in registered horses because we know who the parents and grandparents are and whether or not they've been tested.

But who are we to decide that any of God's creatures are better than other, just because we decided that ones hips or head "look" better. JMHO

It's not about "looking" better, it's about "functioning" better and our responsibility to the horse we put on the ground. We are obligated to produce the best we can and give them every opportunity in the world to end up in a good situation (registration is one of those opportunities).

[Doll-Face]

Originally Posted by doublebarr

I have no problems with someone breeding QUALITY grade horses that have a use. I perfer my registered QH's as we also like to do breed shows and build the reputation of our horses. But, I do know some excellent breeders who will breed a grade mare or two becasue of their excellent attitude and the way they throw good minded, working foals. I have yet to see one of these foals go to anything but a working home. That is responsible breeding, even if it is *gasp* grade horses. However, I do not agree that willy-nilly breeding anything out there that has overies or testicles is right.

Just like a poster before said, drafts are often bred grade to grade, because they are proven working horses and have a deffinate market. Same with a lot of rodeo horses. They may not be registered, but their ability to pass on their abilities and temperment makes them breeding worthy.

I think it's more on an individual, case by case basis to say it is or is not right. But I do think there are way more horses, both grade and registered, that are bred that should never be allowed to pass on their genes.

Rock on!! You stated my opinion perfectly! Totally agree.

[Kinzam]

The statement that one poster made about not knowing a grade horse's parents, genetic history, etc for a reason not to breed...I can appreciate. My rescue foal has all sorts of mysterious conformation and health issues that would be quite a bit more manageable if I actually knew what was "under the hood".

[Lou3]

since a grade horse is simply a horse that is not purebred YES it is very acceptable to breed grade horses. A lot of the best event horses are TB crossed with a warmblood, a lot of the best english gaming ponies are arabs crossed with a native-type pony.
However it is NEVER acceptable to breed an average or below mare. The horse should always have something that makes you go "wow" whether its the most flawless conformation you've ever seen or a show record with many prestigous and fabulous wins on the card. Temperament is NOT enough.

[breezebayou]

I have been milling this topic over in my head, and really trying to understand how we as "man" humans can know whats right for animals. You speak of diseases that horses get, and all I can think is, these diseases became more prevelant, when man decided to pick and choose what and who to breed, breed for looks, "conformation" as you call it.. In the wild horses know instinctively to breed for the "fittest" not the one that is most like a breed standard.. a breed standard that was decided on by man.. Who does not have a very good reputation in the animal world for conserving nature.. Sad really, that we think we can play God with genetics, all for the sake of having a "pure" breed horse..

If we hadnt started to mess with nature, and breed for show, we probably wouldnt have had all the problems with all these genetic disorders.. As always this is JMHO..