on the forehand

Tess · 10-12-2003, 02:04 PM

My horse travels on the forehand. I ride dressage. She is a QH that is not built downhill, she is level. She's especially prone to this at the canter. How do I train her to keep her poll up,and shift her weight to the back?

Thanx!

<small>[ October 12, 2003, 02:12 PM: Message edited by: Tess ]</small>

spyro1 · 10-12-2003, 05:02 PM

I have never ridden dressage, but I had this prob with my gelding in western pleasure training, I would hold him with my hands (lift the shoulder) and drive with my legs, (make him use his hindend) Also, when you are cantering, stop, turn to the outside and canter off, this will also help him to lift the shoulder when he drops. You have to catch it right away when they drop on the forehand and correct it, consistently

Tess · 10-14-2003, 04:06 PM

When you say "lift the shoulder" which shoulder do you mean? I'm thinking you're probably meaning the outside shoulder--for instance when you travel on a circle you would drive the horse forward and lift or put pressure on the outside rein. Is this what you mean? When you say "make him use his hindend" I know this. I'm wondering how you GET the horse to use it's hindend. I'm going to try the cantering after turning. That's one thing I haven't tried. Thanx!

spyro1 · 10-14-2003, 04:24 PM

Most of the time when traveling in a circle, the horse gets lazy and actually drops the INSIDE shoulder. Lifting with your reins (both)and driving with your seat/legs will get him to use his hindend. Hope this helps.

Dawn · 10-15-2003, 05:06 PM

Lifting your hands will lighten the forehand. I'm not talking lift your hands up three inches, just applying an upward motion with the reins. Now, you want to use this as an initial training aid, not rely on it for the rest of their life.

As far as wp and jumpers with their irons too short. I usually see wp with them too long. Jumpers can not and should not go around with them in a classical position. It's just not possible.

Tess · 10-15-2003, 06:27 PM

Thanx so much Vickey. My first 15 minutes of my next ride will be done without stirrups.

Tess

Nobody · 10-15-2003, 06:27 PM

No - jumpers should not ride with irons in a classical position. I did not say that they should! I made the observation that hunt seat riders often try their hand at Dressage and have a difficult time because the stirrups are too short. The long, classical leg is what makes or breaks a Dressage rider.

Maybe WP has changed from when I was observing - I observed stirrups too short because the rider is looking for too much security in the stirrups. A good rider should be able to ride as well bareback as they can with a saddle.

A horse's forehand should not be supported with reins. Riders who rely solely on reins are sloppy and lazy riders. The impulsion comes from the seat, leg, and hindquarter of the horse.

I spent many long hours riding movements on the longe line with NO REINS. My instructor looked for consistent quality of gaits and I was made to provide that. The quality of the gaits did not come from using reins. It came from the other aids. The reins are certainly necessary but they should not be the primary means of fixing problems.

Nobody · 10-15-2003, 06:31 PM

I'm sorry for getting so uptight about this issue, but the use of reins is a fire buring under my kiester. Too many riders are sloppy and lazy because of reliance on reins. I am NOT saying anyone on this forum falls into that category, but I'm just saying that it's a dangerous slope to get stuck on because rein use only leads to more rein use.

The use of reins is very necessary and contributes a considerable amount to your ride, but the reins should be used at a ratio of about 25% to 75% seat and leg.

Sorry again but this issue is my pet peave.

Dawn · 10-15-2003, 06:32 PM

Look, all I'm saying is that if you're horse is dropping a shoulder or the forehand, it is perfectly acceptable to support him with the reins. You did not specify that you were talking about jumpers doing dressage. Even with taking that into consideration it is a vast generalization. It could be true to some extent in the beginning that they start dressage as they are used to having their irons shorter, and it does take time to make the transition to longer.

Dawn · 10-15-2003, 06:33 PM

My pet peeve is people abusing their horses, but I don't make it a point to include it in every post I make.

10-12-2003, 02:04 PM	#1
Tess Full Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Minnesota Posts: 236	on the forehand My horse travels on the forehand. I ride dressage. She is a QH that is not built downhill, she is level. She's especially prone to this at the canter. How do I train her to keep her poll up,and shift her weight to the back? Thanx! <small>[ October 12, 2003, 02:12 PM: Message edited by: Tess ]</small>

10-12-2003, 05:02 PM	#2
spyro1 Senior Member+ Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: The Swamp~Go Gators Posts: 6,934 Images: 65 Blog Entries: 21	I have never ridden dressage, but I had this prob with my gelding in western pleasure training, I would hold him with my hands (lift the shoulder) and drive with my legs, (make him use his hindend) Also, when you are cantering, stop, turn to the outside and canter off, this will also help him to lift the shoulder when he drops. You have to catch it right away when they drop on the forehand and correct it, consistently __________________ Do what you love, love what you do

10-14-2003, 04:24 PM	#4
spyro1 Senior Member+ Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: The Swamp~Go Gators Posts: 6,934 Images: 65 Blog Entries: 21	Most of the time when traveling in a circle, the horse gets lazy and actually drops the INSIDE shoulder. Lifting with your reins (both)and driving with your seat/legs will get him to use his hindend. Hope this helps. __________________ Do what you love, love what you do

10-15-2003, 05:06 PM	#5
Dawn Senior Member+ Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Tennessee Posts: 37,205 Images: 1580	Lifting your hands will lighten the forehand. I'm not talking lift your hands up three inches, just applying an upward motion with the reins. Now, you want to use this as an initial training aid, not rely on it for the rest of their life. As far as wp and jumpers with their irons too short. I usually see wp with them too long. Jumpers can not and should not go around with them in a classical position. It's just not possible. __________________ Sexy by Christmas Challenge-r!! Goal: 11 lbs LOST CURRENT: 4 lbs LOST Starting Weight 170 lbs. Goal Weight 155 lbs. Reached! 20 pound club 2009 Starting Weight 152 lbs. Goal Weight 140 lbs. Reached!

10-15-2003, 06:32 PM	#9
Dawn Senior Member+ Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Tennessee Posts: 37,205 Images: 1580	Look, all I'm saying is that if you're horse is dropping a shoulder or the forehand, it is perfectly acceptable to support him with the reins. You did not specify that you were talking about jumpers doing dressage. Even with taking that into consideration it is a vast generalization. It could be true to some extent in the beginning that they start dressage as they are used to having their irons shorter, and it does take time to make the transition to longer. __________________ Sexy by Christmas Challenge-r!! Goal: 11 lbs LOST CURRENT: 4 lbs LOST Starting Weight 170 lbs. Goal Weight 155 lbs. Reached! 20 pound club 2009 Starting Weight 152 lbs. Goal Weight 140 lbs. Reached!

10-14-2003, 04:06 PM	#3
Tess Full Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Minnesota Posts: 236	When you say "lift the shoulder" which shoulder do you mean? I'm thinking you're probably meaning the outside shoulder--for instance when you travel on a circle you would drive the horse forward and lift or put pressure on the outside rein. Is this what you mean? When you say "make him use his hindend" I know this. I'm wondering how you GET the horse to use it's hindend. I'm going to try the cantering after turning. That's one thing I haven't tried. Thanx!

10-15-2003, 06:27 PM	#6
Tess Full Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Minnesota Posts: 236	Thanx so much Vickey. My first 15 minutes of my next ride will be done without stirrups. Tess

10-15-2003, 06:27 PM	#7
Nobody Banned Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 3	No - jumpers should not ride with irons in a classical position. I did not say that they should! I made the observation that hunt seat riders often try their hand at Dressage and have a difficult time because the stirrups are too short. The long, classical leg is what makes or breaks a Dressage rider. Maybe WP has changed from when I was observing - I observed stirrups too short because the rider is looking for too much security in the stirrups. A good rider should be able to ride as well bareback as they can with a saddle. A horse's forehand should not be supported with reins. Riders who rely solely on reins are sloppy and lazy riders. The impulsion comes from the seat, leg, and hindquarter of the horse. I spent many long hours riding movements on the longe line with NO REINS. My instructor looked for consistent quality of gaits and I was made to provide that. The quality of the gaits did not come from using reins. It came from the other aids. The reins are certainly necessary but they should not be the primary means of fixing problems.

10-15-2003, 06:31 PM	#8
Nobody Banned Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 3	I'm sorry for getting so uptight about this issue, but the use of reins is a fire buring under my kiester. Too many riders are sloppy and lazy because of reliance on reins. I am NOT saying anyone on this forum falls into that category, but I'm just saying that it's a dangerous slope to get stuck on because rein use only leads to more rein use. The use of reins is very necessary and contributes a considerable amount to your ride, but the reins should be used at a ratio of about 25% to 75% seat and leg. Sorry again but this issue is my pet peave.

10-15-2003, 06:33 PM	#10
Dawn Senior Member+ Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Tennessee Posts: 37,205 Images: 1580	My pet peeve is people abusing their horses, but I don't make it a point to include it in every post I make. __________________ Sexy by Christmas Challenge-r!! Goal: 11 lbs LOST CURRENT: 4 lbs LOST Starting Weight 170 lbs. Goal Weight 155 lbs. Reached! 20 pound club 2009 Starting Weight 152 lbs. Goal Weight 140 lbs. Reached!

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
On the Forehand help	kddoublink	Horse Training	7	09-23-2004 03:38 PM
Heavy on the forehand	horsegurly	Horse Training	2	08-08-2004 02:41 PM
Heavy on the forehand <--- help!	amazing_grace	Horse Training	5	08-03-2004 10:52 AM
Forehand?	Brittany1990	Horse Training	2	02-07-2004 02:53 PM
Forehand	Horsebrat20	Horse Training	3	10-12-2003 05:48 PM