[StockHorseGirl]

I've seen her several times - one time liked her (she was riding that horse), next time hated her (working with a rough colt)- last time.. errr (working with people on their horses).

Well he sure had respect by the end. More like shaking in his boots fear of doing the wrong answer.

Can you please elaborate on this, AMD?

[John]

Originally Posted by AMD

Well he sure had respect by the end. More like shaking in his boots fear of doing the wrong answer.

Respect must be established before any meaningful training can happen. It is easier on the horse to do this as quickly as possible. Trying to do this with treats over a period of time results in a potential time bomb.

[Sonny-Dee-Girl]

I saw Stacy Westfall at the Equine Extravaganza in Raleigh, NC this summer. She was great to watch and great to talk to, as well. I found her very personable.

I have to agree with AMD though. Sometimes I watch "celebrity" trainers do things and I think 'hey, i did that, and nobody ever showed me how'. It just came from endless obsessive hours of riding my horse and spending every waking moment being as tuned into her as I could be. A lot of corners get cut when you have to perform on cue. People have been riding and training horses for thousands of years. I don't think there is very much that is actually new. We just rediscover forgotten ideas or add a fresh twist. If you really think about it, very little in this world is actually new.

[John]

Originally Posted by Sonny-Dee-Girl

I saw Stacy Westfall at the Equine Extravaganza in Raleigh, NC this summer. She was great to watch and great to talk to, as well. I found her very personable.

I have to agree with AMD though. Sometimes I watch "celebrity" trainers do things and I think 'hey, i did that, and nobody ever showed me how'. It just came from endless obsessive hours of riding my horse and spending every waking moment being as tuned into her as I could be. A lot of corners get cut when you have to perform on cue. People have been riding and training horses for thousands of years. I don't think there is very much that is actually new. We just rediscover forgotten ideas or add a fresh twist. If you really think about it, very little in this world is actually new.

These are shows and people are paying to watch. If you toss out everything you see except exactly how they gain respect it will be worth going.

[iridehorses]

Sometimes all that's necessary is to appreciate the training and watch the show without reading any more into it.

[Tecumseh]

I have seen this video several times and it makes me emotional every time. I just love watching the willing attitude of that horse (except for the bow) and the bond between them. I have the sweetest, gentlest, best broke horse in the world .... and I would never try that. So, I really give credit where credit is due. Amazing!!

[AMD]

Originally Posted by StockHorseGirl

Can you please elaborate on this, AMD?

Happy to. The first time I saw her - she was riding the horse she is shown with in that video. I wasn't overly impressed as lots of other horsemen and women have done that before. It was nice, refreshing, and neat to see another person with that kind of knowledge though.

The second time she was here from fri-sunday putting on a clinic. The first night was working with your own horses, the second two days was her working with a 2 year old appy gelding. I saw the colt friday night - he had good ground manners, walked next to or always behind his owner. Always stopping wonderfully, moving away easily, easy going. (I understand that people want horses trained different ways so I get Stacey starting him from scratch) The next morning she was doing some round pen work with him (freestyle), switching directions whatever. I never could figure out what the answer was that she wanted. If he turned in towards her, she put pressure on him, if he turned away, she would tap him on the rear with the bag. She was also working with "desensitizing" while having a bag on the end of a whip and using that as her arm extension - different speeds she would ask for (always trotting or cantering) and sometimes pressure and sometimes not. I'm all fine and dandy about it, but you could see in the colts reaction (trying to escape several times) he was out of options and couldn't think of anything. He made a last attempt to jump out (unsuccessful) and then next time he turned towards her she stopped putting pressure on him. When she had him on the line - I found her way of "getting his attention" and getting him to look at her was too rough for my taste. Taking a step back and using her body weight and pulling him (no matter the speed he was traveling) until he stopped and faced her. The force she was using, he had no choice but to stop and face her. She claimed she was getting him to "follow the feel" and "read her body." IMO, you need to give a horse a warning and praise them when they are semi getting it. She just kept going and going until he was basically throwing his butt out, not stopping properly and looking at her high headed until she stopped. By the end of the first 2 hours, he was soaking wet, afraid, and certainely confused. By the end of the weekend he was afraid of the bag just as much as in the beginning, he was headshy more than he was on Friday and he started overreacting a bit. I know the crowd, pressure to perform, and the clock are huge issues with these clinics, but I was not impressed with the end result. Now I agree im sure she was doing more than she was talking about - but im not a "newbie" and can read horse signals pretty well and wasn't really understanding what she was asking at all.

There is a big difference between "training with treats" as John called it and training with fear. Respect is in the middle and I saw none of it. I would love to really watch her program in her training mode at home and see how she really is - as she looked just as uneasy as the horse by the end.

[John]

Originally Posted by John

Respect must be established before any meaningful training can happen. It is easier on the horse to do this as quickly as possible. Trying to do this with treats over a period of time results in a potential time bomb.

Same answer.

[AMD]

Originally Posted by John

Same answer.

And again - Agree to Disagree.

[Care To Jazz?]

Originally Posted by Emma lvs tilly

i have to agree with ADM on this, anyone can do it given time, understanding and patience. key ingredient is a bond.

Not everyone has the patience or attitude to train a reiner through. Sure, a lot of people have potential to, but it takes more than time and a bond to do it. It takes knowledge, understanding of the horse, experience, patience and a whole lot more.

Sure, she's not the first to do it, but instead of always trying to find what she is doing wrong, why not try to enjoy what this woman is trying to tell us. The saddle and bridle are only accessories. A good reining horse should be able to go without the two. Because a reining horse that depends on the bridle is not a good reining horse.

Just my 0.02