[Shotgun93]

Originally Posted by MyBabyTex

It is 100% that 95% of these people could never afford to run these type of operations. What can be done to help that fact. Gov't sponsoring maybe? Donations? If even a fraction of the donations PETA sees went to a cause like this I bet a lot of farms could be funded for a decade.

I am not totally sure what you mean here. If extra money should go to support small farmers and ranchers? If that is what you mean, I don't know what it's like in Canada, but here farmers are given lots of aid. But, it's still not enough to survive on. They get degredation pay, no sales tax on fuel or equipment, disaster relief, Farm Aid, crop leasing, seed sponsorship and the list goes on, but it doesn't even come close to helping them survive.

Originally Posted by MyBabyTex

No one is blaming the workers. At least, I am not. I don't think anyone could if they even partly realized that it is the 'man' that is paying these people. Everyone needs a job. It is not one I could ever do, but someone needs to do it. And these people have families they need to feed. I have nothing at all against the people. And I don't think anyone else should either. I would guarantee that none of those workers particularly likes their job, but who does?

You are not, but a lot of those sites do. Including the ones that you posted, especially PETA. They come and protest, destroy property and threaten the workers at these places. I have no respect for an organization that makes money (non) profiting from exploiting people that are just trying to make a living. It's not right.

Originally Posted by MyBabyTex

The poor pigs that are stuck inside 24/7 in putrid air and can't even turn around.

Maybe in the systems in Canada, but out here, they are not like that. The ones that I have personally been in have great filtration systems. Yes, they smell, but even the cleanest horse barns smell. But the air quality is monitored by the EPA, the water and soil quality is monitored by the DENR, forcing them to have good waste removal systems. Pigs are suseptable to a lot of diseases, so it is imparative that they keep the barns clean. Most pig barns are cleaner than people's houses.

It would be great if these places could buy land so these animals could be let out more, but then we run into government regulations on the land. So many head per acre. And then there is groundwater and soil quality issues with heavily used land. I just don't see where the land would come from. I live in the second least populated state in the US and we don't even have enough land to support something like that.

I agree with you, it would be a great thing to see. But I just don't see how. Not without charging $10 for a pound of hamburger. As it is, meat is so expensive that the average family can barely afford hamburger helper. From raising the cow, to hauling it to an auction, then to a slaughter plant, then tranporting to a processing plant, then to the store and all of the employees in between and the cost of fuel, it gets expensive and no one makes a whole lot on one cow. Which is why the bigger places are more economical.

[Show it]

hmm lets see if i can step in it ageen lol.
we tind to be a nachen (USA) of convinence. Next time you have the opertunaty ask a little kid what hambergers are made of, what beef is. Alot of peps grab a nice tity selifaned paceg of meet with no more thought to what it is than wethere the contents are the colore they would like. For the most part we dont wunt to deal with the "uglyness" of the hole thing. This is sad. We dont thinck about the hourse it took to produce, grow and proces things. Fue peps know just how laber intinseve most of the thing we take forgrated are to produce. We just want it now and we wunt it cheep.
Well maby if we took a little more risposabilaty and payed a little more munny for things that where razed/produced in ways we have egucated or self on and found to be the right option for our famialys things might ... might chang and the lockel farmers might have a chance agenst the big corps.
I was razed on and still eat as much home grown meets and vegys as I can get my hands on or I try to go to the corner bucher store or farmers market, mostly becouse I prifer the tast of home grown. I know first hand just how ugly the proses is from start to finch and personly I wich more peps aprcated what they thoughtlessly stuff in there mouth at the lockel fast food joints.
With that sead I'm not going to stop razing meet animel and I will contnue to suport my felow ranchers. I worry that there are getting to be to many peps how get work up over things they didnt bothere reserching fully and that they are trying to pass laws that distroy or sercly dameg peps livly hood (thats not derctted at any one here) , with out understandding what they are doing. Your right there shuld be reguations and laws of corse but I thinck they should be made buy peps that are qualifed in such areas.
I have sead it befor and I'll say it ageen , untell we start breadding responably and consumming reposably somthing will have to give. I would rathere see a animel distroid/slatered than to sit in somoens back yard and starve for what ever reason. <- little off topick there sorry lol
Ok lets see if that came out right lol. Good post thks for the desction.

[MyBabyTex]

Originally Posted by Lou3

The problem with you believing it to be mostly true is very simply that is is mostly UNTRUE. Until you have worked as a part of the industry and have high level qualifications relating to that industry you cannot fully understand how much of the information is simply shock tactics employed by the animal rights groups.

Oh good! So are you an industry professional? High level qualifications relating to the industry?


I think you are really preaching to the choir here Lou. I think you know me better than that. Or at least thought you did.

[MyBabyTex]

Show It, very good post. Nation of Convenience is a very good term.

And just for the record, it is solely based on opinion that slaughterhouses and slaughter farms are nice well cared for places. Just like it is opinion that they are totally the opposite.

I can show you facts to prove my point, and maybe you can show me facts to prove yours. I can think your facts are balogna, and vice versa.
Either way, this is what I believe. 100%.

[Lou3]

Originally Posted by MyBabyTex

Oh good! So are you an industry professional? High level qualifications relating to the industry?


I think you are really preaching to the choir here Lou. I think you know me better than that. Or at least thought you did.

I am a third year veterinary student and as part of my course study slaughter methods in depth. This part of my training is very nearly complete. I have also grown up around the industry as my father is a vet and my uncle has a sheep and beef farm so i have a lot of experience.

I hope i know you pretty well, but it concerns me when ANYONE looks a PETA site or takes articles out of newspapers etc and says they believe the majority of it, because from a five minute glance i can discredit 95% of it.

[Shotgun93]

Just for the record, I don't like Kosher plants. I think that they are cruel. I know it's kind of hypicritical, but I don't think that those plants should be allowed to kill the animal the way they do.
I know that the religion basis is very strong and freedom of religion is what this country is founded on, but I still don't like to see animals die in that way.

[MyBabyTex]

Originally Posted by Lou3

I am a third year veterinary student and as part of my course study slaughter methods in depth. This part of my training is very nearly complete. I have also grown up around the industry as my father is a vet and my uncle has a sheep and beef farm so i have a lot of experience.

I hope i know you pretty well, but it concerns me when ANYONE looks a PETA site or takes articles out of newspapers etc and says they believe the majority of it, because from a five minute glance i can discredit 95% of it.

I'm not sure what PETA article you are talking about? I never posted a PETA article.

Do you mean The video?? Well, I don't know how you can dispute that. There the cows are, throats slit, guts hanging out, and still walking around and mooing. I understand how animals twitch after death but walking and mooing is not an afterdeath twitch. These animals were alive. So no, sorry I don't quite get how that could be 95% false. You can't argue with what you can see.

[Lou3]

Originally Posted by Shotgun93

Just for the record, I don't like Kosher plants. I think that they are cruel. I know it's kind of hypicritical, but I don't think that those plants should be allowed to kill the animal the way they do.
I know that the religion basis is very strong and freedom of religion is what this country is founded on, but I still don't like to see animals die in that way.

I agree - personal freedom ends when it impinges on the freedom of others or the welfare of animals.

[MyBabyTex]

My father works in a profession which is very rural based, so I got to see a lot of stuff at a young age and throughout the years.

I remember farmers who had their animals outside most of the time, then in to eat and sleep. Farmers that genuinely cared about their animals. Farmers that spent more money curing the animal of an illness than the animal would have brought them in market. Farmers going bankrupt to make sure their barns were heated and ventilated.

I also saw the bigger farms, MUCH bigger farms that had the animals in all day in tiny stalls (cages is more like it). I've never personally seen a cattle farm like that, but have seen a pig farm and poultry farm where the conditions just made me sick. Those pictures from Farm Sanctuary are pretty tame next to what I saw. So it is happening in Canada, I know it is happening near me. I've had and heard conversations with farmers griping about how the big farms get special treatment from the inspectors. And these are good honest men who I have heard talking about this. I have been privy to lots of intersting information firsthand from the smaller farmers. So you can tell me it does not happen because you have seen it does not happen but I have seen the opposite.

Anyways... my point is just that it happens. Like I said, even if it is only happening 1 out of 3 times it is still happening.

I don't think there will ever be a definitive answer to how often it is happening, because there are so many people who have seen the 'good farms' and so many people who have seen the bad. A lot of workers are kept hush hushed about the actual conditions to the point where we will never know the absolute truth from a first handers experience. the people who do speak out are silenced pretty quickly. The point is, that it is happening. Whether it is as widespread as we are lead to believe or not, well who knows. The important thing is to be aware. And to promote humane housing, treatment and transportation for all slaughter bound animals.

Thank you.

[Shotgun93]

As was said, that video was of a kosher plant. They are different. The government has a hard time regulating them because every time they try, the owners scream rights violations because they are "following their religion".
PETA found the one place that they could use autrocities against animals and generalize it as the norm for every plant. I have seen that video before, the played it over and over again when they were here protesting a rendering plant, telling everyone there that this is what they were like.