[Lou3]

Originally Posted by Equine_Harmony

http://www.hsus.org/video_clips/page...temID=27259984

WARNING THIS VIDEO IS VERY DISTURBING, DO NOT CLICK THIS LINK IF YOUR NOT ABLE TO MENTALLY DEAL WITH THIS.

THIS SITE IS RUN BY ANIMAL RIGHTS ACTIVISTS AND NOTHING ON IT IS REMOTELY TRUE. Please dont take ANYTHING that PETA, hsus, or any other site lobbying for animals RIGHTS or lobbying pro-vegetarianism on welfare grounds seriously. The whole lot is a bunch of balony. If all organisations citing animal rights were shut down the organisations concerned with animal welfare would be a lot better off and be able to make a lot more difference to improving the lives of animals everywhere.

[Lou3]

Also MyBabyTex the article you posted is flawed right from the beginning. i only read the first couple of paragraphs - but thats all i needed to read to know it was a load of hooey! The man interviewed said that the animals were still twitching and some still breathing for a few minutes after the stun gun shot them - well of COURSE they were. Even animals put down using barbituates will twitch and expel air for several minutes after being stunned. They are still insensible to pain. This part alone shows that the publiscist has done no real reasearch and does not know what they are talking about. As such you cannot count anything in the article as having any relevance or truth.

[MyBabyTex]

The facts are that we will never go back to that Shotgun. It's funny because your arguments are exactly what I would say to myself as well. If that makes any sense. So let me answer them.

We are never going to go back to the smaller population and the rural living. Unless there is a nuclear war, we are always going to be a city dwelling race for the most part.

It is 100% that 95% of these people could never afford to run these type of operations. What can be done to help that fact. Gov't sponsoring maybe? Donations? If even a fraction of the donations PETA sees went to a cause like this I bet a lot of farms could be funded for a decade.

The thing is that farmers are getting the short end of the stick. They really are. It is happening everywhere in Canada, so I imagine it would be happening in the states as well.


The cruelty lies not so much in the fact that we don't give these animals hundreds of acres to graze on (although it is extremely unnatural and inhumane) but that we don't even allow these animals to stretch their legs and enjoy the sunshine for a part of their day.

No one is blaming the workers. At least, I am not. I don't think anyone could if they even partly realized that it is the 'man' that is paying these people. Everyone needs a job. It is not one I could ever do, but someone needs to do it. And these people have families they need to feed. I have nothing at all against the people. And I don't think anyone else should either. I would guarantee that none of those workers particularly likes their job, but who does?

What I think should be done, is for these corporation to spend some extra cash and hire workers and buy land to let these animals roam. Maybe not 24/7 but at least for some of their life. Like horses have turnouts, let the cattle out for 2 hour stints. Let the pigs out. Let the chickens out.
The poor pigs that are stuck inside 24/7 in putrid air and can't even turn around. This is not speculation, this is fact. It would not take that much time or money to insure these animals had some mental stimulation by being outside in their natural habitat. And how much extra money would it cost to give these animals larger pens? Proper air filters? Humane transportation to slaughter? Not an outrageous amount.

Eventually, one day, I hope to see special spots in all supermarket meat sections that have a special brand of meat that has been humanely raised and transported for slaughter. I have faith that humans would pay the extra chump change to get animals that were raised as humanely as possible for our dinner table. Maybe I'll even have something to do with this change, who knows.

[MyBabyTex]

Well Lou, that is your opinion

And I feel the same way about animal rights sites as well. You have no idea what a pain it is trying to find some information that might just cause you to think that there is something to what I am saying. But it is very hard to find an animal rights site that is not at least half balony. But you are seriously giving me the inspiration to sit my boyfriend down and get him to make me a website that I can create that tells it like it is.

I hope everyone takes the information with a grain of salt. But I don't think that should take away from my message.

[Drafty1]

The slaughter plant that the cattle were being slaughtered in the video was a Kosher plant. Kosher slaughter has to fallow the jewish law as to how the animal is killed.

Ritual slaughter is known as shechitah, and the person who performs the slaughter is called a shochet, both from the Hebrew root shin-Chet-Tav, meaning to destroy or kill. The method of slaughter is a quick, deep stroke across the throat with a perfectly sharp blade with no nicks or unevenness. This method is painless, causes unconsciousness within two seconds, and is widely recognized as the most humane method of slaughter possible. Another advantage of shechitah is that ensures rapid, complete draining of the blood, which is also necessary to render the meat kosher

It looks to me that the animal suffers more than if it were to be bolted. They have a book written ages ago and still fallow that law, this may have been the best way to kill animals back then, but come on get with the times.
I'm not sure how a worker could do that work day in and day out. The video makes me sad and sick.

The sad fact is that there is never going to be an end to animals being butchered because by being the smart people that we are we have created a way for us to live longer and to populate easier. There is no natural selection in people where the weak die and the strong go on. The balance is gone. We have made the choice that we go on and grow and nature will move over and everything will take second place to us.

[MyBabyTex]

Lou, I even just tried to look up pro slaughter sites and just got even more animal rights sites. So please understand the information I have linked to is the best that I have found. And I believe it to be mostly true. You don't have to. Everyone can make up their own minds.

[MyBabyTex]

Drafty, yes it was either a Kosher plant or a Halal plant. Either way, the slaughter methods are extremely cruel. Very good post, btw.

The stun gun, which all horses are killed with, is by far the most humane way to slaughter an animal. At least from wha I have seen. The percentage of animals left alive from them is pretty low.

[Lou3]

The real problem is that no-one with the correct training to understand how animals work physiologically speaking has ever written one of these sites. It takes many years of study to fully understand the way the farming industry works and WHY slaughter is done using the techniques that are used.
Yes halal and kosher slaughter is not good from a welfare POV, and IMO should be banned. But regular slaughter IS done with bolt guns to stun the animal first. This is because even if the mark is missed by a fraction (as sometimes unavoidably occurs) it doesnt matter, the bolt is of such a high calibre that the animal is rendered brain dead anyway. Its brain is literally mushed pretty much regardless of the angle at which the bolt enters the brain. This ensures very effectively that animals are definately brain dead before continuing the slaughter process. The twitching workers refer to is normal and that they thought the animal was still alive is a mark of lack of education of the workers not of bad practice in the slaughter house.
If only there was a way of regulating the internet so that only people with veterinary degrees, agriculture degrees or other relevant high level qualifications could author sites on this subject - that would prevent all the false information floating around out there from reaching people and stirring them to cause trouble for people who are just trying to make an honest living and actually not compromising their animals welfare in any way.
And yes the transport laws in the US DO need tightening up. If they were brought in line with the laws in the UK they would be just fine.

The problem with you believing it to be mostly true is very simply that is is mostly UNTRUE. Until you have worked as a part of the industry and have high level qualifications relating to that industry you cannot fully understand how much of the information is simply shock tactics employed by the animal rights groups. Most of the information you posted is fundamentally wrong - they have even the most basic facts wrong, not just the opinion bit, the actual FACTUAL bit is completely wrong.

[cowgirlnat]

Originally Posted by Equine_Harmony

The Mustang is not on a pedastal VS. Our domestic Horse.
Where will they all go? The BLM has to stop doing the round up, this will save our horses. Please understand this is about politics, money a lot money and greed. The slaughter houses take in not just the un wanted, they are greedy people in most will theft horses to make money, this si an crazy circle that has to be broken, for one strick laws has to be up and in order, no one should own a horse if they can't aford one, if the time comes they can't have the horse (s) euthanized and creamated. On abuse leaving the horses to suffer the owners should face a life sentence, when the laws if at all are strict and in forced then people will think twice.

Darling...we are lucky that they still allow "wild" horses to roam on our land. Mustangs are not domestic to North America. They were introduced to this land my the Spaniards many years ago. Every single "wild" horse that lives in the united states is not in fact wild but FERAL. They are descended from horses that came over on a boat. It is the BLM's job to protect America's NATURAL history. The horses are not supposed to be here and wouldn't be if it weren't for human intervention. However, because the horses were so vital to establishing this country, it is only right that they are allowed to remain. But they cannot be left to reproduced naturally. The ecosystem would be overran by too many animals. Not only do horses graze on that land but so do wild deer, elk, buffalo, and hundreds of others. The horses are priviledged to be there and thus their numbers must be controlled.

Also...you talk about a person not being allowed to have a horse if they can't have one. What about all those people who suffer to feed their own children? Or people who come on hard times and lose a job and can no longer afford to care for their horse. How many horses do you own? How much land an Hay can you supply? The real secret to saving the horses is killing off part of the Human population so you can take back the grazing land! The world is unjust and always will be. For now, slaughter is our only means for keeping horses from being crowded on dry lots and starving to death. And even that still happens. You have some very immature views and ideas when it comes to your arguments. Not to be mean, but you have to look at the whole picture...not just the one of all the poor little ponies who no one loved.

[Thrills]

This thread seems to be jumping around a bit...so I will try to post as per the original post #1.

As far as I know..and have personally seen...slaughter houses are VERY regulated. There are provincial sanitation inspectors and provincial vets that pop in in suprise and scheduled visits. our government is very interested in what we are being fed, and with all the insane things like bse and avian flu...they are not taking any chances.

Same goes for feedlots. Having worked for a vet who specializes in herd health specifically for cattle feedlots...you would be suprised how much time energy and money go into keeping all those animals healthy and happy. everythingk is well documented and reported. these places can easily lose their contracts with one sick and neglected animal. One case of TB and every animal on the property needs to be destroyed.

I still agree that the feedlots are putting your average farmer out of business. My family used to run about 150 head in a cow.calf operation and also dabbled in grain/hay. when one industry was lagging, you usually had the other to rely on...back in the day. Luckily for us, we sold everything off before the first bse cow was discovered but I still watch my uncles struggling and trying to keep everything fed and healthy without losing the farm.

If you look through the news, and SPCA reports...it is not the feedlots that are making headlines. It is the average farmer that can no longer afford to care for their stock. I have seen alot of places, and while I still prefer to eat family raised beef, I have no qualms about buying from a super market.

Now..this is purely based on cattle...I have no personal experience with pigs or sheep.

I agree that transportation to the slaughter houses is a HUGE factor that needs to be changed. I hate driving by and seeing a livestock freighter loaded so toight that the steers cant even move. It is not the driver's fault...they are paid to drive.

Thats about my 2 cents for now, as I seem to be jumping all over and will need to think about this some more