[showjumper]

to be honest. all our youngesters (when we had them) were handled in the field along with the mother until they are 1, then we start to lead them the other side of the gate, its a gradual process, if the foal is becoming a bit arrogant, then we will generally turn the mare out in the back field for 4 weeks, usually does the trick, but we try it as a gradual proces and eventually we lead all the way up to the yard without mommy, but shes always there when littly gets back!

we have a mare and 2 year old with us at the yard at the moment, the baby is too cocky and hides behind mommy. i think it needs to be weaned, soon!

[Juliet Clarke]

i have bred a few foals, and have never been in a rush to wean! i have got them used to being seperated and have taken the mother of competing and everything! Her bag was just a bit fuller when we got home! soon emtied though! foal was over 7 months by this time though. Having fed all my own children for a year it never stopped me doing anything so why should it disrupt your horse! When i did eventually wean they didnt even notice so had no stress.

[harli36]

Originally Posted by Haas Horse Farm

In response to Harli:
Sorry I really do not understand your operation?
What you have posted does not translate well for me. I running a breeding operation and stand several stallions. We usually breed mares back in foal heat or the next cycle. We also wean at four to six months because often the foals are sold off the mare and paid for prior to weaning. We wean them so they can get to their new homes. If they are not sold they are shown so they need to be weaned to faciliate that ... also the mares are shown so it is hard to show a mare with a colt on the side.

If you need to wean to breed back and sell the weanlings then that is something you need to do. But weaning at 4 or 6 months is not something that every operation needs to do. There are definet benefits to keeping the foal on with the mare until the foal and mare are tired of each other. Most of those benefits have to do with the foals temperment but it does make for an easier to train baby.

Not understanding what you are saying about: "All the horror stories you hear about foals who were weaned late is usually due to negligence in working with the foal from day one."

I have never once heard of a foal and mare who were weaned late and there were problems that were handled in a way that would stop those problems. Not saying they aren't out there, but I'm just trying to say that if the situation is managed correctly then most of these problems wouldn't occur. Using your examples....

The horror stories I have personally been involved with were not neglected as far as being worked with... note both colts that were sucking on the same mare had halters on and were broke to lead etc. Look at what the heck it did to the mare!!!!

.

Well obviously it IS negligent to leave two foals on a mare.

The other horror story with the four year old my trainer culled ... it had lots done with it... the only problem is it was done with the mare right there.

Again obviously it's not a great idea to do all of your work with mare and foal with the foal right there. In captivity horses are expected to be away from their friends and in this case Mom's while we use them. If this is going to be done right then as you start bringing the dam back into work you first do that in the pasture with the foal, then next to the pasture then out of eyesight. If it's done right the foal doesn't even realize that the dam is missing once your at a point where they can't see one another. Because the foal isn't stressed he doesn't care too much once the mare is brought back to the pasture either. Once that point has been reached the foal probably doesn't need Mom there for comfort anymore and the two can be seperated semi-permanently or permanently. Again usually around 8 or 10 months after you have been working with the foal and mare by themselves the foal doesn't need Mom there anymore for mental or nutritional needs.

And yes I'm sorry it is negligence (or maybe poor horsemanship?) to leave a foal out with his Mom without them being seperated for 4 years and expect there to be no problems.

I could lots more examples... but lets just say I feel really sorry for someone cause I know where there is a coming two year old draft filly that is still running in the pasture with her dam. She is really sweet and you can do a lot with her... etc. The only problem is she has NEVER been away from her dam.

Again there is a problem with that, we need to work with horses, that is why we have them. To expect a 2 year old to run with Mom the entire time and not have them seperated or used to being without one another is just asking for trouble.

But just because there are people who have extremely unrealistic expectations of keeping a foal with a mare indefinetly doesn't mean that self weaning can't be done effectively if you have realistic expectations.

[Haas Horse Farm]

ROFLOL You missed my point! But that is okay... unless you have seen what I have seen with my very own eyes... They ALL thought they were self weaning by the book!

[harli36]

If they all thought they were doing it right that doesn't make the system wrong or mean that foals can't benefit from the system if done correctly and it certainly doesn't mean....

Originally Posted by Haas Horse Farm

It is common sense that says if you wean them at 4 to 6 months that both the mare and offspring do better.

All it means is that they don't know what they are doing.

If I misunderstood you then I would love to know what you meant.

[Lou3]

Originally Posted by Haas Horse Farm

It is common sense that says if you wean them at 4 to 6 months that both the mare and offspring do better.

Actually that is completely and utterly NOT true. It is considered early weaning to wean before 6 months. Early weaning is a MAJOR welfare problem in many species. A foal should be with their dam until a minimum of 6 months unless there is valid medical reason for separating them earlier. Significant psychological benefits are gained from leaving the foal with the dam until as late as 9 months.
People seem to think only about the foals nutritional needs when weaning and forget about mental well-being altogether which unfortunately leads to foals being weaned as early as 3-4 months, and this is NOT good for them. The main motivation for early weaning is selling and showing and sorry but if someone is prepared to compromise the welfare of their animals for these two reasons they should not be breeding at all.

[Lexy]

Originally Posted by Lou3

Actually that is completely and utterly NOT true. It is considered early weaning to wean before 6 months. Early weaning is a MAJOR welfare problem in many species.

OK, going to use MY common sense and know that you didn't mean "many" species should not be weaned before 6 ms. We all know that MANY species wean their offspring WAY before 6 ms and some species are considered half "grown" at 6 ms.

BUT....... sometimes early weaning is necessary. Not just because of the owners welfare, but also for the welfare of the animals involved.


A foal should be with their dam until a minimum of 6 months unless there is valid medical reason for separating them earlier. Significant psychological benefits are gained from leaving the foal with the dam until as late as 9 months.

Please explain the psychological benefits gained by leaving the foal on the dam for the extra 3 ms.

What about those foals who have HAD to be weaned even earlier. IE... I had a mare that died when her foal was 6 wks old. Going on your theory he should have been a basket case....... but he wasn't. He was stalled after her death, turned out during the day in a pen within site of other horses but he was by himself. He was a very well minded colt. Actually, he was the easiest of all the babies to teach. Physically he kept up with the other foals. His growth rate was within the same perimeters as theirs.

So, how was it detrimental for him to be weaned at 6 wks vs his sibs being weaned at 3-4 ms? Not that I would recommend it, but it seemed to me that he didn't pick up some of the nasty little foal habits that other foals exhibit during/after weaning time.


People seem to think only about the foals nutritional needs when weaning and forget about mental well-being altogether which unfortunately leads to foals being weaned as early as 3-4 months, and this is NOT good for them.

Why is it not good for them? Please enlighten me.

The main motivation for early weaning is selling and showing and sorry but if someone is prepared to compromise the welfare of their animals for these two reasons they should not be breeding at all.

You are assuming facts not in evidence. Yes, many do wean @3-4 ms to prep for show/sales. I myself, 98% of the time, wean between 3-4 ms and have weaned as early as 2.5 ms. But my reason for those weaning times are not based solely on show/sale. They are mostly because of the fact that other than pasture petting, we don't mess much with the foals when they are on their moms and it is much easier for me to handle a 3-4 mth old than it is a 6-9 mth old.

LOL...... (all said with a smile, just being candid)

Lou you can get under my skin faster than anyone. And I know nothing anyone can say will change your mind and that is ok.

Your theories about the horse is your opinion.... you've got a right to that, even if they aren't based on facts/experience/common sense. Your "opinions" of the ppl whom don't subscribe to your theories are just wrong. Actually they are judgments and you do not have a right to that.

I have no problems with your theories and opinions. I do however wish that you would refrain from making degrading statements about others based on the fact that they don't do as you think they should.

[Haas Horse Farm]

I also know SEVERAL situations that have occured and one in particular in AUSTRALIA where the foal would not have survived had it not been weaned. The mare wanted to kill it. Anyway as has been posted by others there is no changing you so why bother wasting my key strokes.

Sorry I have many offspring that have proven themselves in the show pen and plodding and with their own offspring with zero psycological problems from being weaned at between 4 to 6 months of age. It also did not stunt their growth physically!!! LOL

[shell]

We weaned CJ at 8 months old, only because we were boarding them at the time and these was no more room in the stall at night. Also, he was still a stud colt and although Velvet was bred back and in foal with Cleo, he still harrased her to death and wanted to breed her.
Cleo was weaned early. She was only 3 months old. We had to wean her because she was draging Velvet down a lot. No matter how much we fed and the fact that she had feed 24/7 she was still thinner thne the vet and I would have liked. So we weaned Cleo off early. BUT after Velvet was all dryed up Cleo continued to try and nurse all the way up until I just sold Cleo. Cleo was 6 years old and a hand taller then her mother.