Not even sure what to title this :)

SunRock Sage · 02-23-2008, 12:17 AM

Someone mentioned in another thread that there mare is sensitive, to say the least, about having her teats touched. We found out today that ours is also.

The concern that I have is someone said that maiden mares that are sensitive about it may have more trouble letting th foal nurse and that a person may have to get creative to get the mare to let the foal suckle.

My question is, can I do anything before she foals to get her used to it and what would that be? And what kinds of things would you try after foaling to get a mare to let her foal nurse?

Sorry it's so long

kyryah · 02-23-2008, 12:25 AM

Ha ha, I don't have an answer to your question, but I was certainly one of those talking about my mare hating to have her bag touched

Read this... Just got KICKED, first time EVER

Kristina

SunRock Sage · 02-23-2008, 12:38 AM

This time it wasn't me it was my hubby and he stood well out of her way. I think I'm gonna have to find a way to sorta desensitize her somehow.

Glad your kick wasn't worse than it was. Has your mare foaled yet. I'm sure there is a thread about her it rings a bell but I thought I'd ask, there are soooo many mares on there.

Chester · 02-23-2008, 01:00 AM

Something that works with cattle if you are trying to get them to foster a calf is to put them in a yard then let a dog around. Normally brings out the mother in them and then they will let them suckle.

It could work on a horse.

Haas Horse Farm · 02-23-2008, 07:19 AM

I do not think the foal is born yet.... It is hard to suggest a method without being hands on... Especially since your husband has already been kicked... if I read things correctly.

Also given the current weather the other ideas I have are not suitable.... Hot water or a hot rag... is not a great thing to use when the weather is this nasty out... LOL

I think if she is this testy about it now you are best waiting until the foal gets her. If it then continues to be an issue you may have to hold her in a corner of a pen or stall and let her understand by experience once the colt starts sucking that it will make things better...

I know one time I had to steal another mares foal because the new born was a few days early and the mares bag was so engorged the foal could not suck... I stole a colt that was a few weeks older and put him in the stall with the new mare... let him get it sucked down a bit and he helped the other one figure it out... I had one sucking on one side and one on the other... Needless to say the stolen colts dam was not very happy with me... hehehe but it did work and both colts are healthy and happy two year olds.

kyryah · 02-23-2008, 07:31 AM

Nope, no baby yet for me

I have come to the conclusion she still has ahwile to go (hard to believe, as big as that belly is) because in the one pic I *did* manage to get of her bag, it appeared that she had no milk at all. My mare is also not a maiden. She has had several foals, and I think that the problem with touching her bag is me and that there will be no problems with the foal suckling.

My mare's thread... http://www.horsegroomingsupplies.com...ed-183452.html

Kristina

TrueColoursFarm · 02-23-2008, 08:00 AM

Absolutely, 100%, work with her now. Twitch her, hold up a leg, growl at her, etc. She absolutely must allow you to clean down there BEFORE the foal is born and get used to people and foals touching her in that area.

We always milk our mares when the foal is born to bottle feed them to make sure they get the all important colostrum. I'll be darned if I am going to be dodging hooves at that time when there is so much else that needs to be done as well

Most maidens ARE touchy but go slow, be gentle and dont expect them to welcome a cold hand on them either ...

I will start with just rubbing and touching close by, growling and saying "NO!" if they offer to kick at me and praising them if they allow me to get in the general area. We then progress to a towel and always go gentle and slowly and dont stay at it long enough to irritate them either and then we progress to a warm cloth and they must tolerate you getting into every crevice "up there". Heck - I know my Shastan mare has 6 or 7 years worth of crud up there, she is ticklish and sensitive along her entire belly region, she is a solid 16.2hh and she will not be fun in the slightest to deal with and I am starting now for a May 31st foaling date

Good luck!

gardenmum · 02-23-2008, 08:41 AM

I agree with TrueColor, now is the time to work with your mare and make sure she is used to having her udder touched. I would think it would be extremely stressful for the foal if you had to "pin" the mare and the mare put up a lot of fuss in order to make her allow it to nurse.

My mare threatened to kick me a few times when I first started to reach up and touch her udder, but a firm "hey" and snap on the lead let her know that I was not going to allow her to do that. She quickly realized that all I was doing is lightly touching her there and wasn't going to cause her any pain and there was nothing to get concerned about. Now she allows me to reach up and wash her and check her out anytime. I do, however, let her know I am going to be touching her there by first laying my hand on her side under her belly near her flanks. I move quietly and gently and reach up and do what I have to do and she just stands there like nothing is going on.

If you can get someone to hold her lead when you start to work with her, that would be good, otherwise, hold it yourself, I always think it is best to make sure you have control of the horse when you first start working with getting them used to having their teats touched. You should be able to read/pick up on your horses attitude without too much trouble and correct her before she actually kicks. If she lays her ears back, stiffens her body, swishes her tail or picks her hind foot up slightly from the ground, she should be immediately corrected with a firm (but not overly so) snap on the lead and a firm spoken correction such as "hey" or "no". Then wait till she is standing still again and repeat the attempt. As soon as she allows you to touch the udder lightly, only for a second even, then take your hand off her udder and praise her. Do this a couple of times, then repeat later or the next day. It won't take her long to realize that you are not there to hurt her and that there is nothing to fear. IF she does manage to get out a kick quicker than you can react, then your reaction on snapping the lead and verbal should be more firm. IF you walk away from her because she kicks you, then she "wins" and she WILL do it again to you as she knows this is how to get you away when she does not want you there.

Another way to work with them, I have found, is to brush them down and when you get to the belly, gently brush the belly right up to the udder. Many times horses who don't want someones hand grabbing them have no problem if they think they are being brushed and it feels good. Then you can desensitize the mare to having her udder brushed around and eventually put your hand on it after brushing. But, if the mare threatens to kick you while you are brushing its belly, the same applies as before.

One thing to remember, if a horse "wins", no matter what you are trying to teach it, it will try to "win" the next time, even if it has to be "badder" than last time in order to "win". Once you start to teach your horse to do something, say... to cross a stream... and your horse refuses, then you had better know that you will have time to spend getting that horse to cross the stream, even if it takes an hour and you have to walk in and lead the horse, because when the horse "wins" it knows it can just do it again, whatever it did, to make you let it do what it wants. So, I feel it is in the horses and persons best interest to follow through and teach the horse that all is ok with having he udder touched and cleaned. It is best for the horse, the person, and the foal.

Just my two cents.

02-23-2008, 12:17 AM	#1
SunRock Sage Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Western Nebraska, 12 miles west of North Platte. Posts: 362 Images: 22	Not even sure what to title this :) Someone mentioned in another thread that there mare is sensitive, to say the least, about having her teats touched. We found out today that ours is also. The concern that I have is someone said that maiden mares that are sensitive about it may have more trouble letting th foal nurse and that a person may have to get creative to get the mare to let the foal suckle. My question is, can I do anything before she foals to get her used to it and what would that be? And what kinds of things would you try after foaling to get a mare to let her foal nurse? Sorry it's so long

02-23-2008, 12:25 AM	#2
kyryah Senior Member+ Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Harrietta, MI Posts: 2,789 Images: 409	Ha ha, I don't have an answer to your question, but I was certainly one of those talking about my mare hating to have her bag touched Read this... Just got KICKED, first time EVER Kristina __________________ You can lead a horse to water, but if you can get him to roll over and float on his back, then you got something! 100% pro HUMANE* horse slaughter!*

02-23-2008, 01:00 AM	#4
Chester Senior Member+ Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: inland of the coral sea Posts: 9,152 Images: 726	Something that works with cattle if you are trying to get them to foster a calf is to put them in a yard then let a dog around. Normally brings out the mother in them and then they will let them suckle. It could work on a horse. __________________ Aussie Aussie Aussie OI OI OI "We're all members of the outback club, we don't back down and we don't give up" Lee Kernaghan "Good friends are worth more than money any day" Adam Brand Is it full moon time again? Did the cereal truck overturn and fruitloops got spilt?

02-23-2008, 07:31 AM	#6
kyryah Senior Member+ Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Harrietta, MI Posts: 2,789 Images: 409	Nope, no baby yet for me I have come to the conclusion she still has ahwile to go (hard to believe, as big as that belly is) because in the one pic I did manage to get of her bag, it appeared that she had no milk at all. My mare is also not a maiden. She has had several foals, and I think that the problem with touching her bag is me and that there will be no problems with the foal suckling. My mare's thread... http://www.horsegroomingsupplies.com...ed-183452.html Kristina __________________ You can lead a horse to water, but if you can get him to roll over and float on his back, then you got something! 100% pro HUMANE* horse slaughter!*

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02-23-2008, 12:38 AM	#3
SunRock Sage Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Western Nebraska, 12 miles west of North Platte. Posts: 362 Images: 22	This time it wasn't me it was my hubby and he stood well out of her way. I think I'm gonna have to find a way to sorta desensitize her somehow. Glad your kick wasn't worse than it was. Has your mare foaled yet. I'm sure there is a thread about her it rings a bell but I thought I'd ask, there are soooo many mares on there.

02-23-2008, 08:00 AM	#7
TrueColoursFarm Senior Member+ Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Wilsonville, Ontario, CANADA Posts: 1,610 Images: 3	Absolutely, 100%, work with her now. Twitch her, hold up a leg, growl at her, etc. She absolutely must allow you to clean down there BEFORE the foal is born and get used to people and foals touching her in that area. We always milk our mares when the foal is born to bottle feed them to make sure they get the all important colostrum. I'll be darned if I am going to be dodging hooves at that time when there is so much else that needs to be done as well Most maidens ARE touchy but go slow, be gentle and dont expect them to welcome a cold hand on them either ... I will start with just rubbing and touching close by, growling and saying "NO!" if they offer to kick at me and praising them if they allow me to get in the general area. We then progress to a towel and always go gentle and slowly and dont stay at it long enough to irritate them either and then we progress to a warm cloth and they must tolerate you getting into every crevice "up there". Heck - I know my Shastan mare has 6 or 7 years worth of crud up there, she is ticklish and sensitive along her entire belly region, she is a solid 16.2hh and she will not be fun in the slightest to deal with and I am starting now for a May 31st foaling date Good luck!

02-23-2008, 08:41 AM	#8
gardenmum Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 396 Images: 92	I agree with TrueColor, now is the time to work with your mare and make sure she is used to having her udder touched. I would think it would be extremely stressful for the foal if you had to "pin" the mare and the mare put up a lot of fuss in order to make her allow it to nurse. My mare threatened to kick me a few times when I first started to reach up and touch her udder, but a firm "hey" and snap on the lead let her know that I was not going to allow her to do that. She quickly realized that all I was doing is lightly touching her there and wasn't going to cause her any pain and there was nothing to get concerned about. Now she allows me to reach up and wash her and check her out anytime. I do, however, let her know I am going to be touching her there by first laying my hand on her side under her belly near her flanks. I move quietly and gently and reach up and do what I have to do and she just stands there like nothing is going on. If you can get someone to hold her lead when you start to work with her, that would be good, otherwise, hold it yourself, I always think it is best to make sure you have control of the horse when you first start working with getting them used to having their teats touched. You should be able to read/pick up on your horses attitude without too much trouble and correct her before she actually kicks. If she lays her ears back, stiffens her body, swishes her tail or picks her hind foot up slightly from the ground, she should be immediately corrected with a firm (but not overly so) snap on the lead and a firm spoken correction such as "hey" or "no". Then wait till she is standing still again and repeat the attempt. As soon as she allows you to touch the udder lightly, only for a second even, then take your hand off her udder and praise her. Do this a couple of times, then repeat later or the next day. It won't take her long to realize that you are not there to hurt her and that there is nothing to fear. IF she does manage to get out a kick quicker than you can react, then your reaction on snapping the lead and verbal should be more firm. IF you walk away from her because she kicks you, then she "wins" and she WILL do it again to you as she knows this is how to get you away when she does not want you there. Another way to work with them, I have found, is to brush them down and when you get to the belly, gently brush the belly right up to the udder. Many times horses who don't want someones hand grabbing them have no problem if they think they are being brushed and it feels good. Then you can desensitize the mare to having her udder brushed around and eventually put your hand on it after brushing. But, if the mare threatens to kick you while you are brushing its belly, the same applies as before. One thing to remember, if a horse "wins", no matter what you are trying to teach it, it will try to "win" the next time, even if it has to be "badder" than last time in order to "win". Once you start to teach your horse to do something, say... to cross a stream... and your horse refuses, then you had better know that you will have time to spend getting that horse to cross the stream, even if it takes an hour and you have to walk in and lead the horse, because when the horse "wins" it knows it can just do it again, whatever it did, to make you let it do what it wants. So, I feel it is in the horses and persons best interest to follow through and teach the horse that all is ok with having he udder touched and cleaned. It is best for the horse, the person, and the foal. Just my two cents.