[wyldterv]

Originally Posted by Sue B

Yes, I don't think that this trainer would say that ALL horses should go totally grainless....but he would like to see them on at least low grain diets. By that, I don't think he was talking feeding less feed...but feeding products with less grain, more fiber in them.

I agree that some horses do seem to need more carbs than others....not a lot more...but some difference. I wonder if there is any correlation between the horses that have more quick twitch muscle (TBs) and those with slow twitch muscle (drafts) and the "need" for more carbs as fuel for the quick twitch?

Actually the thought of the fast twitch versus low twitch body compesition versus how much carb need/tolerance is probably pretty valid...

I know when I was a track runner in HS (Hurdles and 200 yrd Dash were my two specialties, plus relay) we actually did carb loads two days leading up to our comp.

[Sue B]

Originally Posted by wyldterv

I know when I was a track runner in HS (Hurdles and 200 yrd Dash were my two specialties, plus relay) we actually did carb loads two days leading up to our comp.

Similar to what they do in racing horses. Which leads to another observation by a well known horseman....
When Nutrena first acquired the Farr line and were doing their best to promote Legacy (at the time one of the highest fat feeds on the market...plus high in fiber), they supplied a local university equine program (specifically the Standardbred racers) with the product. The head of the program brought out one horse that he had had many, many helath issues with...his immune system was compromised (got rain rot although he rarely went out), probably had chronic digestive upset (was getting 12 lbs grain/day) and had to be on steroids for the treatment of more than one issue. They could barely keep weiight on him during training....he was more than nervous to handle and hated being touched for grooming or massages.

After switching to the lower grain, high fat/fiber feed, they were able to reduce his feed ration by almost half, removed the steroids and he never had another issue with the rain rot and other similar things he often got. He loved being handled and groomed. They said his performance was already great...but had improved after switching the feed. The previous feed was a special blend that they had a team of nutritionist and trainers develop to be used exculisvely on the racers.

[wyldterv]

This is what has been working for Dancer after playing around with a few things the past 9 months. LMF Gold

I would list out the full ingredient list but did not find an empty bag in the barn (I was gone all weekend and Rocketman decided to do a dump run I see, which is good, but he always takes ALL of my empty feed bags instead of leaving me one or two for garbage bags, ugh, lol).

From Memory it has alfalfa, beat pulp, oats, rice bran, Boss, flax meal, soy oil, Cool Calories 100, soy hulls and yeast culture among things.

This combination seems to be working for her at 5 lbs she was maintaining but at 6 she has been gaining.

Of course having access to grazing the majority of the time this time of year to good pasture certain helps even more!

[Ryle]

What does this trainer feed?

[Sue B]

I have no idea....but there are now several feeds on the market...many of them marketed as performance feeds....that fit the bill of no/low grain feeds. In general, these feeds are nutrient dense, have high levels of amino acids and have things like soy hulls, beet pulp and forage meal that are easily digestible forms of fiber.

Since he generally feeds whatever the horse gets at home...he was speaking in general from what I gathered were experiences with a variety of feeds. Nearly every major feed company makes a version of low/no grain feeds so they are fairly easy to get and learn about.

[AQHA Hunter]

Wyldterv, thanks for posting your experience with LMF. I won 2 bags of it in a raffle last month, but haven't tried feeding it yet (just bought 50# of NW Horse and LMF says don't feed with a mineral supp). I'm currently feeding Ricebran, NW and Alfalfa cubes (in addition to the grass hay grown on the farm I board at). He's still getting about 1# of COB a day just because I can't bear to throw out perfectly good feed. The LMF is attractive though, because I'd feel better about asking the barn to feed if they don't have to mix 4 feedstuffs together.

I am impressed with the results from the low-grain diet. Obie is a very TB-type QH, and I was concerned about keeping weight on him, but he stays around a BCS of 5 quite easily, but isn't too hyped up from excess grain. I now wonder if my last mare and I would have had an easier time of it if I'd kept her on a grainless diet. I have to admit to having been pretty much brainwashed into feeding every performance horse alfalfa and COB, but that was back in the "bad old days."

[wyldterv]

I have been feeding LMF Supper Supplement for the past 3 yrs now. I fed the LMF Development mixed with and alfalfa pellets and rice bran while Dancer was pregnant and then lactating. She's been on the Gold now for 2 months and WOW was the over all result. I'm REALLY happy with it for her needs.

[shakti21]

I watched a great show about this this morning on RFD TV. Apparently the nutritionalists are now calling for low grain, high forage, and increased fat in food. I mean we know forrage is their main source anyways, or atleast is supposed to be. And we also know that grain is hard to digest, corn and oats causes blood sugar spikes making many horses hyper and hard to handle when the sugar rush hits them, just like 1,000 pound kids. Corn is known to increase inflamation in joints etc. But apparently they now know that fats metabolize better, provide better energy, and are better on the horses body.

A good site to check, and it came from the show as well, is Livestock Nutrition Supplements and feeds It was a very informative show for only being 20 minutes in length after the commercials.

[LilyAnn]

Funny - I saw the same special on RFD TV - I think it was called Feed Facts (?) and the Forage First program. I was reading this thread and thought it sounded very similar - start with Forage, add a vitamin/mineral supplement (what they called their ration balancer) and a high fat supplement if needed for performance horses.

The special was basically an infomercial for the ADM Alliance Nutrition brand, but it was still interesting and informative. And follows the same train of thought the OP started with - even high performance horses can do well on a low/no grain diet.

[ryu2832]

When I put Ruby on the low NSC, high fat, unlimited hay or pasture (grass/legume mix). She trimmed down into lovely condition and has held it, she's put on muscle and looks awesome.

I went with a ration balancer with everyone else, and they are looking great, no hay bellies, and they have excellent energy.