[Ambrose]

First off, let me just state how awesome this forum is for getting answers and opinions for so many different questions.

So, the horse I ride at the the trail-riding stable where I work is a great all-around guy. Lovely smooth ride, not spooky at anything (that I know of), sensible and responsive. He's not show quality or anything fancy, but he is a great guide horse and I trust him very much (he once ran across the barn to get in between me and a horse that had just bitten me).

Leads, ties, grooms with no problem. Bridles easily and accepts the bit with ease. He is, however, nippy when you fiddle with his saddle.

I've only been working there for a few months, but I was told that almost none of the trail horses were nippy or anxious while being girthed up until this past summer, when a girl worked there who is no longer employed with us. Since then, some of the horses act fearful that they're going to be hurt when the cinch is tightened. That makes me think that the girl or some other person was too rough and pinched them or otherwise made saddling an unpleasant experience.

So, back to my horse in particular.

He doesn't seem sore anywhere, back sides or stomach, and is not sensitive to being touched around the belly. He doesn't mind having the saddle touched, wiggled, or pulled upon. But when you tighten the girth or cinch - English or Western - he'll turn his head like he would like to nip you, and lay his ears back a bit (not an "I hate you and I'm going to bite you now", more like a "I don't like that and I think you should quit" in terms of body language).

I'm very gentle while saddling him and I tighten the girth in increments. I never pull fast, just smoothly and deliberately. I always make sure that it's never too tight and that the girth is very clean. So I really don't believe that I'm hurting him, though of course I could be wrong.

So the question is, is this a fear issue or an aggression problem? It seems to me like he's scared of being hurt by the girth, but I know he could also be warning me off from doing something uncomfortable to him.

Do I keep working very slowly with him to teach him that he won't be hurt when the girth tightens, or do I punish him immediately whenever he displays negative behavior? He has never bitten me, he just cranks his neck back like he wants to give me a nip. If it's a fear reaction I don't want to exacerbate it by punishment; I'd rather use positive reinforcement. But if this is merely a pushy behavior, I want to stop it immediately.

Jeez, that was long. What do you guys think?

[meljean]

Are you cinching too tight, he may not need to be that tight to be secure. It could also be that he is warning you as he may have been being cinched too tight by other people.

Try moving saddle back some, and just watch him, if he turns head around, keep elbow out to nudge his head back. Just don't be rough.

[farmeress]

When a horse is good for everything but one particular thing like girthing...it is rarely aggression when an issue like biting comes into play...it is 99% pain from improper girthing on a cold back horse...doing them up too quick.....to tight...ill fitting saddles are also a reason biting while girthing happens...being kicked/hit in the stomach to stop bloating will also cause this reaction.

If you use a girth tightener ....they can cause a pressure point that causes aggressive biting when the girth is being done up....personally...I never use one of these due to the bruising it can cause a horse under a flap where the bottom sits....too many people "brace" it directly on a horse for leverage...wrong!!

Try a girth cover to help....I had to do this with Gandolfe for about 3 months before I could take it off and do the girth up very slowly....I also changed his girth to a humane one that does up with individual sliding straps which really really helped with this issue.

[BitsnBits]

Mine will do that same expression if I go a little too fast for her. I usually put the saddle on, and tighten just enough to keep the saddle on, then do a few things and tighten a bit more and she's fine. I don't cinch her real tight, unless we've been warming up and are going to do some real work. Then I usually go one or two holes tighter than her usual spot. But by then she's sucked that belly in and doesn't care. LOL.

[Sheza_Angel]

Does your horse have ulcers? Has he been checked for ulcers? You can buy a generic form of omeprazole that is $200 to treat them for a month now. Our mare kicked out no matter how lightly we girthed her up before we treated her. My gelding tried to bite when we put a bit in and cinched him up, too, because he had teeth problems. Once they were floated he was fine. So is this after the bit is in his mouth, or before?

[Callie's Mom]

my mare is exactly the horse you are speaking of She is a wonderful horse but girthing up she will crank her head around, pin her ears and chomp at you - though she has never bitten me or even come close to it... she does this before the girth is even tighted at all... when I even pick up the girth around her.
Just like you I cinch her slowly and carefully but before she had me she was ridden by a young girl mostly who probably just threw the saddle on, tightened that girth as tight and as fast as she could and jumped on so Izzy learned that girthing = pain.
Izzy has been doing a bit better each time as I have been doing the following:
When she turns her head toward me I give the "aaagh - noo" (in a deep tone) and in the beginning a little pop on the nose/side of her mouth... as I cinch very slowly and rub her shoulder periodically.
Then whenever she is calm about a gentle tightening I give her a treat (I tighten very slow and take a good minimum 5 pulls to get it tight) but not usually until we are almost tightened as I don't want her looking for 5 treats

He will get through this... he just has had someone be harsh with him so be firm but gentle and understanding.

[ParkedOut]

My new gelding is like that. VERY girthy and his thing isn't nipping...he'll simply lay right down.

He laid down the first time and hasn't done it since. When my husband tightened the cinch, he does it fast and all the horses we have are ok with that, but this guy was new and I assume, overwhelmed.

Take it slow and easy, but be deliberate about it(sounds like you already are). My mare can get nippy around her 'in' time and as she is well behaved, I simply put my palm toward her face when she turns and she gets the idea she has gone too far. (DO NOT do that with an unfamiliar or aggressive horse as it will simply get you bitten faster)

Also, after you cinch him up , pick his front feet up one at a time to help 'settle' the cinch. Sometimes if you have a horse with alot of skin or fat deposits around there it can be pinching and picking up the legs will smooth the skin folds or release the trapped fat.

Hope that helps... and WELCOME!

[MissHopesMom]

To me it sounds more of a fear problem than an aggressiveness problem.

If the majority of horses have had a change in attitude during girthing since the other employee was working with them, I'm inclined to think that this person may have been yanking on them; they've now associated girthing with pain from the other employee's rough handling.

I think you're doing great, with taking it slow, doing the girth up in increments. I do the same as another poster, and do the cinch up enough to keep the saddle from slipping, and after walking around ( to the riding ring, for instance ) will tighten some more... walk a little more, then do a final tighten. Doesn't help that Hope sticks out that belly as much as she possibly can!

Hopefully your calm approach to girthing him up will help him realize you're not going to hurt him. I always talk to Hope, soothe her and slowly tighten.

[Ambrose]

Thanks a lot for the help, guys. I had a feeling it was a fear problem and that he wasn't just being a meanie. And I'll certainly look into the ulcer issue just in case.

We'll have to see how a couple months of gentle handling changes his attitude.