[Blistering Winds]

whether you want the information on "should you shouldn't you"......it makes people sleep better to be sure that they have made the attempt at educating you to do "right" by the horse.

Do not be offended.





As for what to do....lots of walking, jogging. Control. Maneuver the shoulders, hips. Getting basic stuff down and solid.

I have a 4 year old that is in essence, her "2 year old" year of training. we do lots of walking, exposing her to "SCARY" objects. Trotting and repeating said scary objects. (things not scary at a walk will EAT THEM at a jog)



And honestly, I dislike loping in the round pen. For the size of circle, they need more balance than they are ready. So I am glad you are considering the open arena more.


the fact that the horse "ran off" with you once, means you need more control work at the lower speeds. Lots of flexing, bending, disengaging exercises.....



Good luck...


Also...as a thought, when I let a horse lope for the first time, I make it "enjoyable" and "their idea" somewhat.

Horses usually do better entering the lope if they are headed back to the gate. Some people avoid this at all possible, but on greenies, it works REALLY well, then I can "pass" the gate after I know they are controllable at the lope and not going to kill me.

I start with a nice work out at the walk, trot, lots of bending, flexing, disengagements....then toward the end of the ride, I ask for just a bit more, as we head toward the "time to get off" part of the arena...the gate.

I let them enter the lope then I just "hang on". I don't worry about where we are going, that we aren't going TOO fast to where they are bolting out of control, but I don't care if they are on the right lead or not......I just let them be.

Usually the first few times it is short lived. I end before they blow up.

Then at each ride, I ask for more, I ask for longer, I ask to pass the gate THEN stop.....and eventually I begin to ask for specific leads after they balance out and are "safe" to start screwing with them further.

[Lou3]

get outta the round pen. A 2 year old should not even be being free-worked in a round pen, you are gonna kill her joints if you continue the way you are.
Even with my THREE year olds I put 60 days on them to get the basics down (walk trot only NO canter) and then turn them away with long lining etc as their exercise til the following spring when they're physically ready to be doing a bit more and be asked for more demanding stuff.

Have you even conditioned this filly properly for a rider? I spend MONTHS starting in the 2 year old year, walking in hand and long lining up and down gentle hills, doing carrot stretches, ponying the youngster to get some good trot on it to get it fit enough to carry a rider for the first time. A youngster being backed should be as fit and conditioned as a finished show horse before they carry a rider for the first time. You cant just pull a youngster out of the field when its only been taught ground manners etc, lunge it a few times and then get straight on, the conditioning MUST come first. Even on older horses coming back into work after a long time off I spend a little while lunging and then a good few weeks walking and trotting in realtively straight lines on the roads and trails before I would dream of asking them to do something as physically difficult as cantering a circle.

Of course she's upset about the lope, she isnt anywhere near physically competant enough yet to be performing a lope with a rider, ESPECIALLY not in a round pen - the first few lopes with ANY horse should be a few strides in a STRAIGHT line. No cornering in canter until walk and trot are darn near 100% balanced at all times.

[cutter123]

Good point, Blistering Winds. Yes, a young horse will feel rushy and unbalanced at the lope at first, and it may be hard to get them to pick it up. They are not used to balancing with a rider on. It helps to pick a spot where they naturally might want to pick up a lope, and then the rider must stay soft and "absorb" the unbalanced movement of the horse and do their best to stay out of the horse's way to ensure a relaxed and positive loping experience.

P.S. thank you for the well wishes! I also wish you the best of luck with your mare. I hope she turns out to be an excellent reining prospect for you

[gluey33]

I've just read your replies and you sound like you've got what you need to be doing. She sounds like a lovely filly and I wish you best with her.

[Reinergirl23]

Originally Posted by cutter123

P.S. thank you for the well wishes! I also wish you the best of luck with your mare. I hope she turns out to be an excellent reining prospect for you

Thanks!!! I like to think she will be a good little reiner!

Originally Posted by gluey33

I've just read your replies and you sound like you've got what you need to be doing. She sounds like a lovely filly and I wish you best with her.

Thank you gluey33! That's sweet of you!

Originally Posted by Lou3

get outta the round pen. A 2 year old should not even be being free-worked in a round pen, you are gonna kill her joints if you continue the way you are.
Even with my THREE year olds I put 60 days on them to get the basics down (walk trot only NO canter) and then turn them away with long lining etc as their exercise til the following spring when they're physically ready to be doing a bit more and be asked for more demanding stuff.

Have you even conditioned this filly properly for a rider? I spend MONTHS starting in the 2 year old year, walking in hand and long lining up and down gentle hills, doing carrot stretches, ponying the youngster to get some good trot on it to get it fit enough to carry a rider for the first time. A youngster being backed should be as fit and conditioned as a finished show horse before they carry a rider for the first time. You cant just pull a youngster out of the field when its only been taught ground manners etc, lunge it a few times and then get straight on, the conditioning MUST come first. Even on older horses coming back into work after a long time off I spend a little while lunging and then a good few weeks walking and trotting in realtively straight lines on the roads and trails before I would dream of asking them to do something as physically difficult as cantering a circle.

Of course she's upset about the lope, she isnt anywhere near physically competant enough yet to be performing a lope with a rider, ESPECIALLY not in a round pen - the first few lopes with ANY horse should be a few strides in a STRAIGHT line. No cornering in canter until walk and trot are darn near 100% balanced at all times.

Thanks for your input. Lucy was worked in the round pen and had been ridden before I bought her, (by a trainer that knows what she was doing) She had her loping with NO problems, I guess it was just with me and the roundpen that she has a problem loping!! The breeder/trainer would ride her in a decent sized arena (not a roundpen) so maybe that had something to do with! I will take everybody's advice about not loping her in the round pen!

Originally Posted by Blistering Winds

whether you want the information on "should you shouldn't you"......it makes people sleep better to be sure that they have made the attempt at educating you to do "right" by the horse.

Do not be offended.

I'm not offended, I understand that is what they believe and they are looking out for the best interest of the horse. I just respectfully disagree!

Originally Posted by Blistering Winds

the fact that the horse "ran off" with you once, means you need more control work at the lower speeds. Lots of flexing, bending, disengaging exercises.....


Good luck...

Thanks! I've been working on that stuff, I think I may need to do some more disengaging excercises (you mean on the ground right) Like disengaging her hindquarters..stuff like that??

Originally Posted by Blistering Winds

Also...as a thought, when I let a horse lope for the first time, I make it "enjoyable" and "their idea" somewhat.

Horses usually do better entering the lope if they are headed back to the gate. Some people avoid this at all possible, but on greenies, it works REALLY well, then I can "pass" the gate after I know they are controllable at the lope and not going to kill me.

I start with a nice work out at the walk, trot, lots of bending, flexing, disengagements....then toward the end of the ride, I ask for just a bit more, as we head toward the "time to get off" part of the arena...the gate.

I let them enter the lope then I just "hang on". I don't worry about where we are going, that we aren't going TOO fast to where they are bolting out of control, but I don't care if they are on the right lead or not......I just let them be.

Usually the first few times it is short lived. I end before they blow up.

Then at each ride, I ask for more, I ask for longer, I ask to pass the gate THEN stop.....and eventually I begin to ask for specific leads after they balance out and are "safe" to start screwing with them further.

Thanks for the good advice!! I think once I get her in the big ring, I know I wont worry about leads or speed even (unless she's trying to run off with me! hehe) I'll probably let her go where she wants at first for the most part to get her comfortable!! Especially since are last few experiences at the lope were so bad!

[TCAdams610]

I have been breaking horses for years, we do 30 days ground work followed by 8 days under saddle. About 20 min at a time, then turn them out till they are 3. We bring them back at 3 and slowly work them through the simple stuff. When they get that we move on, how long depends on the horse. All of our horses are rock solid by the time they hit 4. Our roping horses are not started roping till they turn 5. Our rening horses are finished by the time tey hit 4. You know your horse best just look for his clues, take it easy and have fun. Best of luck to you and your horse.

[Auzzie Honey]

Hey! Thanks for the advice! Turning her out for a year is not an option and I'm not about to do it.

Can I ask why not?
I don't see a problem turning out a horse to grow up for a year . .a year is nothing compared to the years of work ahead.. am curious, that's all

[cutter123]

I can't answer for the OP auzzie honey, since I don't know her plans, but it could be that she plans on showing this horse at a Futurity at the end of her 3 year old year. In that case, a year off would put her too far behind to be ready for a Futurity.

I have helped my trainer get Futurity horses ready every year for the past 6 years I've worked here, and this year I have my own Futurity horse as well. They are started as 2 year olds and get intermittent work over the course of their 2 year old year, and more consistent work throughout their 3 year old year, leading up to the futurity. A good trainer knows how to find that line...where a horse is ready for a futurity. Too little work your horse isn't ready. Too much work and your horse isn't ready either. It's a fine line with babies.

I know some people are horrified at the thought of futurities. Unfortunately, at the top levels, when a huge amount of money is brought into the equation, there are always people who will consider the money before considering the good of the horse. However, this is just a handful of people and does not represent the entire industry. If it did, the industry would be out of business. Think about it. If there were scads of crippled fried 3 year olds out there, money would be LOST, not won. At most trainer's barns, futurity horses are picked very carefully and those who won't make it because they won't be ready are sold or given a different job, not pushed into being something they can't be.

It also wouldn't make economic sense to cripple or fry a horse to get it ready for a Futurity. After all, a futurity is just the BEGINNING. It is like a debutante ball...an introduction of a young girl into society. That is hardly the end of her career! A futurity is an introduction into the show world. I travel to many shows and see futurity horses going on to compete in their derby and classic years (4 and 5/6yr olds) and then on into weekend shows for aged horses. If done' correctly, their early start and experience sets them up for a lifetime of fitness and a good attitude towards being a show horse. Of course there is people/trainers who do this wrong and produce horrendous results that are like a black eye on the face of the industry. But judging an entire industry by the unethical actions of a few is like saying "all (insert discipline here) are hacks" by looking at a couple of local open show bad horseman. It's a sad truth that you can see examples of bad horsemanship and stewardship pretty much everywhere you go, regardless of discipline.

Sorry to hijack this thread. I just feel I need to shed light on an issue that many people make a judgement about when not having the knowledge about it.

[irideazip]

Originally Posted by Reinergirl23

We have done a lot of flexing, but I try not to do so much under saddle anymore...I do it on the ground before I get on. She started doing it too much on her own, lol, she will pull her head around by the stirrup and just keep it there when she is standing still (when I'm not asking her too) since I've quit flexing her under saddle she's finally starting to stop that..hehe.

I know what you mean! My friend's filly does the same thing, so we go light on the lateral undersaddle...but still work her vertically so she can get more used to vertical pressure. It sounds like you have your head on straight and have a good plan on where to go from here. I wish you the best of luck and hope to see pics/vids of you and your filly some time soon!

[IIIBarsV]

I know western pleasure horses who are started as yearlings. Do I agree? No. But aside from the pissy attitude they all seem to get by the time they're four, they are sound for the most part.

Reiners? Well, my mom is right in with some of the top reiners in Ontario... they all own at least one GameReady Equine machine. Why? Because reining is a very physically strenuous sport to be in, and the training is NOT always that easy. These horses are trained on hard, and they go and win. They also bow tendons, blow out joints, and they require more preventative health care maintenance in terms of the health of their legs and joints than the average horse does.

Personally I'm not worried about the horse being ridden right now- it's what happens when she sends it to the trainer that we should all be worrying about! I have not seen what I would call a "gentle" reining trainer yet.

Anywho, don't worry about loping so much until you've got a nice open pen to work loping straight lines in. Reining-bred horses are often much more balanced and stronger than most other breeds at a younger age- has to do with the way they're built. The greater width of chest and hip allows them to balance with weight much more easily than a narrower arabian or hunt seat/western pleasure-bred quarter horse.

We start our young quarter horses at two, lightly. We spend at least a month on ground work, play around on the lunge line, and set our walk/trot/canter/whoa cues on the lunge first with tack. We always start with a smooth-mouth snaffle, preferably a full-cheek (clearer communication to the horse). Noseband, too, adjusted so that it hangs about a 1/2 inch off the lower jaw. We do not use drop nosebands or crank them on tightly. Sessions are kept short- no longer than 45 mins of playing around, reinforcing ground work followed up with 20 mins of in-saddle.

Honestly, what your trainer will appreciate more is a young horse who has good steering, backs nicely, and knows things like moving off leg, giving to the bit, all the little manuevering things. Reining isn't about loping everywhere, believe it or not- it's about how manueverable your horse is. You can start teaching her the beginnings of neckreining/leg steering, and turning on the haunches (slowly- just pushing the shoulder around, not spinning).

When you have the bigger pen available, start on the lunge first- every single ride, walk, trot, canter, whoa (with your saddle done up) to reinforce. Make sure that when you ask the mare to canter, she does it quickly, and if she starts broncing, crack her bum with the lunge whip and simultaneously prevent her from taking off (rope halter, jerk jerk jerk), and continue asking her until she settles down and lopes around normally without bucking. After she maintains a nice steady canter for two circles, ask her to whoa, and reward, let her have a break. So basically, keep her cantering until she does it properly without even thinking about bucking, then let her know she's done the right thing by letting her stop working.

Then you get to try it from the saddle, starting from a trot- if she's sluggish, reach for your crop, not your spurs, even though reiners loooooove their spurs. You will get better results from a bite on the bum than a poke in the belly. Spurs are NOT for forward. They are for the manuevers. Even if you're wearing spurs, carry a crop too and above all, resist the urge to use your spurs at all when you're asking her to lope. Give her a crack on the rump instead. She will associate that with the lungewhip and understand "oh, she wants me to go faster".

Keep asking her to canter until, like on the lungeline, she is not trying to buck and just canters along nicely. Don't worry about steering unless you're going into a corner... gently steer. Allow your reins to be short enough that if you need contact, you've got it, but don't try and slow her down. Let her lope and balance with your weight. For the first cantering/loping lessons, as soon as they do it nice, I let them go only the length of the long side of the pen, and then ask for a trot/walk/whoa and let them relax. You have to slowly build up to it- everything needs to be slowly built up to.

Starting from the trot into the canter is much easier in the long run because it means "CANTER NOW" and it's easier for the horse to react to. As they progress and get stronger, you can change the anty by asking them to canter as quickly as they can from a walk (try to minimize trot steps), or canter a bit longer. I do not canter young horses more than once around my pen (but my pen is a full hunter ring, 250' x 150', so it's pretty big!) until they've been under saddle for at least 4 months (if they're 3 and under).

You don't want to tire them out too much when they're this young, because that's when you'll get a sour horse (exception is the horse who runs everywhere- my 5 yr old, you can work the heck out of her and she'll still meet you at the gate and push everybody else out of the way. She is very forward and a very hard worker.) I had a 4 yr old reining-bred mare in for training a couple years ago. She was extremely atheletic but extremely lazy, extremely sensitive. She had never been ridden and barely haltered most of her life, but seriously, within 6 weeks, she could've gone to a horse show and won western pleasure. She was incredibly smart. Walk, trot/jog, slow canter, low-headed, and would slide a bit from a canter (she was VERY lazy! anything to stop faster, she'd do it!), moved off leg, picked up on neckreining in like a day. I find most reining horses to be very quick and easy learners, which is why I'm completely baffled as to why most reining trainers are so rough on their horses.

Play around a lot at the walk and trot (extend trot, medium trot, jog), serpentine, push her around a bit with your legs, get a nice back up (I don't care how old they are, EVERY horse should have a decent back-up), and lope her enough that she knows how to do it without giving you trouble. Even 3 yr old futurity horses don't have to be perfect.