[MIEventer]

Why do we continue to compare ourselves to top Riders and Trainers out there? We are NOT them in the least.

We always try to mimic them for some reason. "Oh well, Beezie Madden had a 3 ring elevator bit in her horses mouth, so I am going to do the same!" or "I just saw Rodrigo Pessoa jumping a 2 year old 5'0" so I guess that's ok for me to do as well!"

We are not them - we need to stop mimicing them WITHOUT understanding their education, ethics, step by steps and how to's.

Yep, you are right! There are top trainers that are doing all these strenuous things with 2 year olds. But ask yourself - why? And ask yourself - how long are these horses going to last before they break down due to being rushed and started so early?

Now ask yourself - what do I want to do that is the absolute best for this animal that I brought into my life, starting now?

Also ask yourself - is this about me? Or about the horse?

Contact a veterinarian - or even better, contact the Equestrian Center at Michigan State University and ask for copies of their studdies that have been done on this very subject. There are too many horses being rushed and started too early, causing joint damage, mental fatigue, muscle damage, souring, and in the long run - horses end up being discarded like kleenex due to the selfishness of the people who handled their training and education.

This isn't about you. This isn't about what top trainers are doing. This is about the well being of your animal. Wanting what is best for them mentally and physcially in the long run. Wanting to have a very healthy, strong, mature, well rounded, educated horse in the long run.

[sarahhowen]

I thinks you maybe need to evaluate what it is you are looking to do with this mare, if you are looking for a horse to train and forge a life long relationship with then you need to consider the implacations of riding her so young. think about the damage that you are causing to her joints now and then times that by 20, thats what she is going to be like when she is older if you don't give a dam about her (which I sense isn't the case) then carry on what you are doing.

Yes some horses get worked very young i.e racehorses which I personnaly don't agree with, but often these are fed huge amounts of supplements in order to allow them to develop quicker (kinda like a kid on steroids is going to be stronger that one that isn't)

She is still a baby, please allow her to be this for the next year.

[bvhorses]

I am going to agree with all the previous posts, even though you do not want to hear it. A responsible trainer will not push a young horse into strenous training before it is physically able. However, becasue it is the trend to get them performing at an adult level as early as possible, the future soundness of show horses is compromised. I really do believe that those top trainers out there only truly care about the horse for the time they have it. If it is washed up by 10 years old, oh well, plenty more to bring along. This is why there are so many show horses (reiners, pleasure, and hunters!) under 5 years old who already do not flex sound and require hock injections! I think this is nuts.
I have had horses sent to me at 2 years old to break under saddle. I do not canter(lope) them until they are 3 and we do not work on circles smaller than 20m at a trot. Even then it is only for steering practice, not on the lunge. There is so much brainwork that can be done with the 2 yr old, no need to work the body hard too! I find when it comes time for more serious work, it comes so easily because the foundation has been laid solidly! I have had no one buck, rear, or anything silly, since they know the score and have confidence and respect from the start.

[irideazip]

I think you should work on your walking and jogging, turning, stopping, flexing, and bending. Lots of lunge line work. Keep sessions short, 15-20 mins MAXIMUM.

I know a lot of people think 2 is too young...but if your horse is physically mature enough to be undersaddle, then OK, but go easy. No need to rush into the loping.

If she is going to a trainer, he/she will make sure she learns everything she needs to learn. Keep the number of days you ride to a minimum too. Let her learn, but let her be a horse as well. I, personally, do not like to ride 2 year olds, but for people who do, i think it is best if they know to keep it simple and easy so you don't stress them, or their body, out.

*Zipps on flame suit*

P.S...I understand starting 2 year olds is a hot topic, but NO ONE is helping the OP by cramming it down her throat that her horse is too young to be ridden. Please try and just answer her questions...if you don't think the horse should be ridden, ok, but she has already stated that is NOT what this thread is about, so let it go

[Reinergirl23]

Originally Posted by Auzzie Honey

I know that you didn't ask if you should be riding a 2 year old, but what age to back and ride is just another hot topic that will cause a few ears to prick up .. just like Natural horsemanship, what feed to give, and racing *hides* etc ..

First up, I agree with the others. Riding a horse at such a young age is something I am very much against [hence why I am not for racing] - basically, without getting into to much detail, doing too much with a 2 year old can lead to health problems down the track (that's why we dont lunge our yearlings ). There is too much strain on the joints, and the horse is just a bub, needs to fill out more to be able to carry the weight evenly. They're also not mentally (or physically) ready to start training .. She has her whole life ahead of her .. why rush it?

But, since you've chosen to ignore advice, and want to proceed on training the 2 year old, here are some tips.

Don't lope her yet - she's waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too unbalanced for that kind of work. Would you lope a 10 yr old that wasn't balanced? No. You'd work gentley on the walk, then proceed into the trot.



Ofcoarse she took off, she's only a baby, and doesn't understand.. Don't expect too much too soon. TBH, if you want to be training a horse more, buy yourself an older horse, say 3-5 years. They're still green and need plenty of training.



Before chucking her into the round pen, think for a minuet. Would you train your child, at 5 years old, to start weight lifting? Would they even be interested in it? No, not really. They want to play, have fun, explore the world. If you started heavy training at this age, you will more than likely cause physical probs down the track. Yes, I know thats a vast comparison, but I'm trying to alow you to understand what kind of damage can be caused. A round pen is Bl***y hard work for any horse, and the younger the horse, the more you wear and damage the joints. I wouldn't be lunging her in canter .. I'd only JUST be starting to introduce long lining



Throw her out for a year, let her think over what she's already learnt. After a year, she'll be more filled out, and ready for more training You could bring her in after a year, do some more ground work and see how she is - has she filled out more, how she's going etc.. then start her from there.

I do appologise if I come across harsh in my post, but I've seen too many horses run down from being broken early that it's a very touchy subject. I've given some of my opinions, take of it what you will. But I am sure others will post that you shouldn't be riding a 2 year old .. just be careful with her.

Hey! Thanks for the advice! Turning her out for a year is not an option and I'm not about to do it.

I will wait until I get into the big arena to attempt to lope her again! (Just a side note, I did lope her when I went to look at her, and she was fine!! No bucking, bolting, taking off with the bit, so she was just trying to test me and see what she could get away with!)

Usually when I ride her I mainly walk with just a little bit of jogging. When I loped her I would lope her around the roundpen like maybe 2 circles and then I'd stop. But like I said, I haven't done that in a few weeks, so I maybe loped her 3 times...

[Reinergirl23]

Originally Posted by gluey33

Sounds like she is having major balance problems. Is she still a bit clumsy and awkward? What about going back to a little groundwork and teaching her to yield front end and back end properly. A little work here makes the riding job much easier. When you do get on, at the walk and a little at the jog start asking her to yield this way and that, slowly develop her muscles and teach her to carry herself. keep your sessions short, even only 15 or 20 minutes and only 2 or 3 times a week. On the other days (sigh) more groundwork. If you can keep youself to this, in a few months you'll have a very balanced soft horse who'll be ready to start some real work. Try not to lope until you can control her shoulders a little more and then give her some space (the new arena) to do it in. Asking her in a round yard at this stage will put some really bad stress on her joints. I also found with my young horse that he found doing things easier out off the sand on firmer footing. Hes just three now and looking good and I've just got to get motivated to start really working him.

She is still a bit clumsy but not too bad. I wouldn't mind doing some more groundwork with her, maybe before I ride or maybe a few days a week! I know it's probably best to teach things on the ground before you try and teach it on their back! At least it makes it a little easier!

Thanks for the advice! I appreciate it! and good luck with your 3 year old!

[Reinergirl23]

Originally Posted by dotgotcalm

Personally, I'd already have her out of the round pen and out into the open since I don't like riding a 2 year old in small circles. She's probably unbalanced enough at the lope to scare herself a little, thus the bucks and the bolt. Waiting until you can get her in a larger area is a good idea.

I'm assuming that you'll be sending her to a reining trainer soon, correct? If so, don't sweat body control, ie turn on the haunches too much. Most trainers I know would rather have a young horse come in knowing only how to walk, jog, lope, and whoa. With anything else you teach her you run the risk of starting a bad habit that the trainer will only have to fix before he can train her his way. Just get her guiding and doing her gaits when asked and you should be good. If you already have a trainer picked out you might give him a call and ask what else he'd like her to know before she arrives. He should be more than willing to tell you.

If I were you I'd be mostly concentrating on exposing her to different things that she'll likely encounter down the road. If you can get her used to working in a pen with other horses while staying calm and focused on you that would be great. She'll have to have her feet and legs handled a lot, for those boots and shoes, so getting her used to that would be helpful as well. Get her used to being hosed off too. Just getting her out for some slow trail rides would help build her stamina as well as her coordination and confidence. Good luck!

Thanks for posting! I have thought about going out of the roundpen and maybe going on a few trails or maybe just walkiing her around the property under saddle to let her kind of explore and doing something differenT! I'm kind of waiting to go on trails until I get her shod and til I have somebody to go with! But that is definitely a great idea!

Lucy is great with having her feet handled, she stands nicely for the vet, I hose her off every day so that isn't a problem! She is pretty calm about most everything. When the garbage truck gets there everyday, when we are in the round pen she usually just stops to look, I've never seen her ever really spook, she just looks! hehe, it's cute!

edit to add: I want to do most of the training myself! I plan on reading a few books and watching some dvds! I've ridden under quite a few trainers so I'm not a total noob! If I run into roadblocks in training, I do think I will send her to a trainer. I do have one in mind, his name is Tom Foran and he's got some amazing reiners out in simi valley!! Although, I'm sure he's probably pretty spendy, so I'll definitely have to start saving up! hehe

Thanks for the great advice!

[cutter123]

Of course I'll probably get flamed for this since I'm one of those "bad evil people who ride 2 year olds" (on a related topic, I am taking my SEVENTEEN year old gelding to the AQHA World this year; he was started as a two year old and is completely sound)

You need to get loping. The round pen is probably too small for her to feel balanced enough and really too small for her to be loping in. However, the longer you wait, the worse problem it will become. She has already bucked and run too fast when loping. Loping should be taught right away as a "no big deal" thing, so the horse doesn't treat it as a big deal. I generally will lope a horse on the second or third ride. If it is made into some taboo big deal, you will cause yourself and the horse problems. A horse is not truely "started" or "broke" until it knows how to go forward freely and relaxed at all three gaits.

This does not mean you need to lope a lot. With two year olds, we do most things at a trot. However, they do need to know to go into a relaxed lope when asked.

What I would work on if it were me, is I would get out of the round pen, find a safe bigger area to ride, and get going forward relaxed. Short sessions where you do not endlessly drill things are good for the mind. With 2 year olds I do a lot of big serpentines and changes of direction through the center. This gets them thinking about changing "polarities" from left to right, and can help you start to get them thinking about staying between your legs, as you use your legs to change the bend of their body to find the new direction.

On a colt my priorities under saddle are this:
1) relaxed free forward motion
2) follow your nose
3) start to bend around my leg

These things can be taught to a 2 year old safely and quickly without frying their mind or overtaxing their body. The multiple World Champion performance horse trainer I work for has proved this time and time again by turning out safe sane athletic mounts who stay sound well into their 20's. In fact, I saw one this weekend at a show. Clarks Tax Refund is a daughter of Clarks Doc Bar and was my trainers Futurity horse 23 years ago, in 1985. She packed her owner through a run in a beginner cutting class. Her owner is paralyzed from the waist down. He straps himself into the saddle and goes cutting, and does his fair share of winning. As for "Clark," she looks a bit old but is in excellent shape and still athletic and sound enough to cut well. She enjoys her job. These old campaigners are worth their weight in gold.

She is only one I could mention. I could sit here all day and rattle off Old horse stories. My trainer had another Futurity horse, Nitas Silhouette, who won many aged event titles as a 3, 4, and 5 year old. He went to the AQHA World with her when she was 18 and Won the World in Senior Cutting. She had many babies and passed away, still sound and rideable, at the ripe old age of 27, last year. She is missed. We are riding her grandbabies and great grandbabies.

[Reinergirl23]

Originally Posted by Buckshot

She's probably not ready to be loping in the roundpen.

I'd continue what you're doing - she's only two - and work on gently building up the intensity of the workout. But don't do ANYTHING too drastic!

As far as loping, don't do it in the roundpen. I don't think she's ready to be loped yet personally, but if you are going to lope, work on straight lines in the arena once it's built.

LOL, I am trying not to do anything too drastic! The breeder I bought her from stressed to me since she is still young to not do much loping with her, she told me to mainly walk with a little jogging and even shorter amount of loping! She told me she hasn't had a problem with any of their horses having lameness issues when they get older!

I will def. wait until the big arena is finished! Who knows how long that will take! I'll try and hold off doing much loping until the beginning of her 3 y.o. year..

[Reinergirl23]

Originally Posted by irideazip

I think you should work on your walking and jogging, turning, stopping, flexing, and bending. Lots of lunge line work. Keep sessions short, 15-20 mins MAXIMUM.

I know a lot of people think 2 is too young...but if your horse is physically mature enough to be undersaddle, then OK, but go easy. No need to rush into the loping.

If she is going to a trainer, he/she will make sure she learns everything she needs to learn. Keep the number of days you ride to a minimum too. Let her learn, but let her be a horse as well. I, personally, do not like to ride 2 year olds, but for people who do, i think it is best if they know to keep it simple and easy so you don't stress them, or their body, out.

*Zipps on flame suit*

P.S...I understand starting 2 year olds is a hot topic, but NO ONE is helping the OP by cramming it down her throat that her horse is too young to be ridden. Please try and just answer her questions...if you don't think the horse should be ridden, ok, but she has already stated that is NOT what this thread is about, so let it go

Thanks! I should have stated in the first post that I do not want opinions on whether or not I should ride her. I understand it's a very controversial topic, and I didn't want this to be about THAT!

I've said so previously that I'm going to wait until the big arena is done to try and lope her again! When I do, I won't lope her for a long time until she's 3...

We have done a lot of flexing, but I try not to do so much under saddle anymore...I do it on the ground before I get on. She started doing it too much on her own, lol, she will pull her head around by the stirrup and just keep it there when she is standing still (when I'm not asking her too) since I've quit flexing her under saddle she's finally starting to stop that..hehe.

Thanks for posting!

Originally Posted by cutter123

Of course I'll probably get flamed for this since I'm one of those "bad evil people who ride 2 year olds" (on a related topic, I am taking my SEVENTEEN year old gelding to the AQHA World this year; he was started as a two year old and is completely sound)

You need to get loping. The round pen is probably too small for her to feel balanced enough and really too small for her to be loping in. However, the longer you wait, the worse problem it will become. She has already bucked and run too fast when loping. Loping should be taught right away as a "no big deal" thing, so the horse doesn't treat it as a big deal. I generally will lope a horse on the second or third ride. If it is made into some taboo big deal, you will cause yourself and the horse problems. A horse is not truely "started" or "broke" until it knows how to go forward freely and relaxed at all three gaits.

This does not mean you need to lope a lot. With two year olds, we do most things at a trot. However, they do need to know to go into a relaxed lope when asked.

What I would work on if it were me, is I would get out of the round pen, find a safe bigger area to ride, and get going forward relaxed. Short sessions where you do not endlessly drill things are good for the mind. With 2 year olds I do a lot of big serpentines and changes of direction through the center. This gets them thinking about changing "polarities" from left to right, and can help you start to get them thinking about staying between your legs, as you use your legs to change the bend of their body to find the new direction.

On a colt my priorities under saddle are this:
1) relaxed free forward motion
2) follow your nose
3) start to bend around my leg

These things can be taught to a 2 year old safely and quickly without frying their mind or overtaxing their body. The multiple World Champion performance horse trainer I work for has proved this time and time again by turning out safe sane athletic mounts who stay sound well into their 20's. In fact, I saw one this weekend at a show. Clarks Tax Refund is a daughter of Clarks Doc Bar and was my trainers Futurity horse 23 years ago, in 1985. She packed her owner through a run in a beginner cutting class. Her owner is paralyzed from the waist down. He straps himself into the saddle and goes cutting, and does his fair share of winning. As for "Clark," she looks a bit old but is in excellent shape and still athletic and sound enough to cut well. She enjoys her job. These old campaigners are worth their weight in gold.

She is only one I could mention. I could sit here all day and rattle off Old horse stories. My trainer had another Futurity horse, Nitas Silhouette, who won many aged event titles as a 3, 4, and 5 year old. He went to the AQHA World with her when she was 18 and Won the World in Senior Cutting. She had many babies and passed away, still sound and rideable, at the ripe old age of 27, last year. She is missed. We are riding her grandbabies and great grandbabies.

Great Post!!! I do want to wait for the big arena to lope her, hopefully working her at the walk and trot she will get more solid in going slow and following her nose at the walk and trot! When I got her about a month ago she only had 30 rides and the main thing she knew was "whoa", walk, trot, canter, and I could get like maybe 2 backup steps out of her. Her trot was extremely fast! In the past month I've managed to get her backing nicely (head down, giving to the bit, she probably backs like 10 steps or more if I ask her!) I have slowed her trot considerably, it's finally getting consistent and on a loose rein and she's doing better guiding at the trot! That's mainly what we've been working on!

I loved hearing your stories about the older horses going off to win at big shows!!

Good luck at the World show with your gelding!