[QHLady13]

For some reason I cannot get the pics to post. Will try again later....

Solace just turned 4 Jan. 13th. He is dbl. reg. AQHA and ABRA. He stands 16.1 and still has room to grow. He currently underwent WP training and has mastered the walk and jog. As for the lope, that's another story. Would anyone like to share some ideas on getting your horse to understand the difference b/t a lope and canter? Also can anyone prescribe some exercises or training tools for his headset and balance? (they were working him with a training fork in western, but I won't ride that english as it breaks the line from the hand to the bit) He is much more naturally suited for english riding (long sweeping trot) and we are currently working on 20 meter circles and a spiral in to get him working from behind and his collection. He has a tendency to keep his head nice and vertical for the walk/jog but looses it in the canter.

Also, I know for QH a low horizontal headset is desired with the nose vertical to the ground. I see so many WP horses with their noses tucked towards their chest. What is the correct position? Solace naturally carries his head rather low (except in the canter) but I want to create a more rounded topline and a more rounded appearance in general. Hopefully I can upload a video of him in the early stages of WP training (he was hesitating his back left and I was told that was due to his size in order to maintain a slow jog) and another of his moving out in the roundpen and ridden english. Any and all critiques welcome and ideas PLEASE! I am always up for learning more and new material! Thanks!

1st pic, What I don't want, head high strung out, hollowed back
2nd pic, more rounded (even though he's not square), still need nose vertical

(Training fork for use only in free longe)

Will Post Video Soon!

[IIIBarsV]

Think "Dressage". I've got similar issues with a 16.2hh appendix gelding. He's short-backed and actually more suited to western pleasure (little motivation to trot out), naturally collected sort of mover, but strung out even though he's slow. I also have a 15.1 thick-built solid Appy gelding who is western pleasure/halter bred, and have the same things going on with him- lack of collection, not giving to bit pressure, low-headed but straining up and hollow due to plain old bad training (he's a barrel horse. Liked running too much as a young horse, I guess).

On both horses, I kept them/moved them back into a full cheek smooth-mouth snaffle. I ride Wenglish (not a typo, lol... I often cross genres and have an english bridle on a western saddle or vice versa). In these cases I stay in my english saddle because it gives me more of a feel for the horses (Wintec Close Contact w/ CAIR- like riding bareback with support, it's great for training in).

With the big grey (16.2hher), I focus on forward impulsion. Getting it was the hard part. Once I got it, starting at the walk, we'd do little circles, little serpentines, using leg and direct rein, and ask him to soften on the bit. Softening on the bit (giving you their nose without you pulling them around) is one of the major building blocks to developing speed control, collection and a nice frame on a good show horse.

Teaching softening on the bit is done by simply picking up some light contact, and holding it steady in a fixed position (I always start laterally, but this can be done vertically with equal pressure on both reins). Increase the pressure if the horse spends a few seconds ignoring you. This is done by slowly closing your fingers on the rein(s), starting with ring finger/pinkie finger. I use my pinkie fingers to lightly and quickly bump on the rein- there is still contact, but the horse can feel little taps coming through the rein, and that is harder to ignore.

As soon as they turn their nose into the pressure, relax the rein. Many people- including trainers, even big name ones- make the mistake of continuing to apply pressure and "pull" the horse- the horse learns that you will pull his head for him, and he will become heavy on the bit. If you want more flex, then ask again.

Vertically is what gives you the speed control and collection "brakes". With the Appy gelding, I focused on getting him to stretch waaaay down and open his whole topline up. The tricky part with this is that it is essentially teaching the horse to drop his head down when he feels bit pressure- a form of rooting and evasion. On a horse who is hollow or stiff or lacks muscle development through the base of the neck and topline, this is a very beneficial exercise.

The trick after that is continuing the education and asking them to go down, then bring it up back up into a vertical flexion position with their nose. It's not hard, really- the horse is looking for the release of pressure, thinking "What can I do to make the pressure go away?" They will put their heads down... then they will bring them back up if the pressure does not release when the head goes down. The final step is usually that they tuck their nose/flex vertically. This is when you release.

The release is the teacher. Memorise that line. The release is the teacher.

Impulsion on these exercises is very important. Your big sweeping trot is perfect for this, because it's *already there*. On both my geldings I had to create the impulsion. On the grey, who is slightly ring sour (but getting out of it), working out in the field doubled his willingness for forward motion and gave me a lot to work with. With the Appy, when he finally relaxed out of his fear issues, suddenly he was proving that he definitely has western pleasure bloodlines, and I had to recreate the impulsion with the help of a dressage whip tap. Both horses had previously been spurred up and the grey was on the verge of killing someone over it, the Appy just indifferent to leg. I am anti-spur, by the way.... and all of these exercises can be done without spurs, and actually work *better* if done without them.

As with teaching giving to bit pressure, with forward motion and getting a horse "hot off your bare leg", the teacher is the release. Whenever you get the forward motion, relax your legs. When you have the horse paying attention to your legs (instant responses), then you move to "half halt", which is a way to coil the spring and increase collection, elevation, and speed control.

A half-halt can be misleading with it's name. Essentially it's just applying pressure with reins and legs at the same time, pushing the horse forward and asking them to soften at the same time. This is basically what happens when asking for flexion in either direction as well. In the basic stages, the horse will frame up and maintain the same push. Then you begin asking them for more impulsion and a tighter frame. Then you go to impulsion with a slower speed (this is the basic of lifting).

It helps to maintain your balanced seat, move with the horse, and then even lift your seat a little more than moving with the horse. This will encourage the horse, along with leg pressure application, to follow your movement and increase the lift. Then you run with it from there, practicing every day with relaxed rest periods, and continuing to build the horse's condition and muscles. You ask for it on circles, into and out of transitions, during serpentines... everywhere, until the horse is strong enough.

For western pleasure, the trick will be to relax into the lift and not hang onto the horse- in other words, release when you feel the lift. This will teach the horse the cue and learn that "this" is the no-pressure place to be. They will try to do it on their if you give them a chance to- this is simple with a horse who is already fairly long-and-low with their neck conformation.

Some of the reasons I do not ride with spurs or use them in these exercises are:

- You get a tail-swishy horse, who may also pin their ears, grind their teeth, kick out, or become ring sour. The very least, the horse gets a tense expression. Bottomline, the horse is happier without something sharp poking them in the gut, and will be able to focus and work more efficiently and willingly with you.

- Poking the horse under the belly with long ball spurs/similar to "lift the back" will yes, give you a lifted back, but kills your hind end impulsion because the horse is trying to get it's belly away instead of pushing and lifting with the hind end and abdominal muscles. In others, it gives you "fake" collection- the sort you see when a horse is trying to crowhop it's rider off.

- You will always be lifting your heel to touch the horse's side with the spur, and this ruins equitation. I don't care what anyone says about quieter cues- spurs make your heel move. Pressing with your calves does not. It is invisible, if you're riding with the pressure-release system and keeping your horse lightened up. If the horse is dead-sided, there is a problem with the training.

- No worries about "Oh no! I forgot my spurs!" right before you go in a class.

- You'll never be able to really tell if the horse has started elevating correctly, or because they're "hollowing their back UP". There is a huge, huge difference between a horse who has lifted their back, tightened their abs and started *pushing from behind*, and a horse who is rounding their back up like you just dipped their tail bone in cold water. Those "hollowed UP" horses tend to get heavy on the face and do not lift their shoulders well- they are often the ones with the "broken lope" (front end hops, hind end pops), or strung out in the hind end at the log (disconnected jog).

Spurs often cause more movement problems than they fix. It's my opinion that if your horse isn't moving forward from leg well enough, then grab the dressage whip and give him a sharp tap after you've applied leg (leg, more leg, light tap+leg, sharp tap+leg). That fixes the problem pretty quick, without side effects (unless you haven't worked on the lunge good enough or something....)

[IIIBarsV]

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention... all of those techniques can be done without a training fork/martingale, draw reins, or tiedowns as well, and work better because then you see where the horse is most comfortable carrying themselves, and you will not end up with a broken neckline (you'll get a well muscled, smooth neck that you will never have to sweat *ever*).

Training fork you have to be careful with, if it is adjusted too short, it will just pull down all the time and the horse will a) lean on the bit, and b) become extremely heavy on the forehand.

Draw reins are a better option if you can ride on a relaxed rein with them, but work without anything for a few weeks first and soften your hands.

To fix the gimpy jog: Serpentine the heck out of him. Get him into a trot and then change direction every two seconds on direct rein with leg (mostly inside leg to balance), until he slows down. Continue pushing him into a jog (don't let him break to a walk), and serpentine. This will encourage him to carry himself correctly, not get one-sided, and not compensate for a lack of collection. Gimping the hind is totally "cheating the jog"- but the quick serpentining is *guaranteed* to fix that done regularly and give him one unbeatable perfect rhythym jog.

[QHLady13]

Originally Posted by IIIBarsV

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention... all of those techniques can be done without a training fork/martingale, draw reins, or tiedowns as well, and work better because then you see where the horse is most comfortable carrying themselves, and you will not end up with a broken neckline (you'll get a well muscled, smooth neck that you will never have to sweat *ever*).

Training fork you have to be careful with, if it is adjusted too short, it will just pull down all the time and the horse will a) lean on the bit, and b) become extremely heavy on the forehand.

Draw reins are a better option if you can ride on a relaxed rein with them, but work without anything for a few weeks first and soften your hands.

To fix the gimpy jog: Serpentine the heck out of him. Get him into a trot and then change direction every two seconds on direct rein with leg (mostly inside leg to balance), until he slows down. Continue pushing him into a jog (don't let him break to a walk), and serpentine. This will encourage him to carry himself correctly, not get one-sided, and not compensate for a lack of collection. Gimping the hind is totally "cheating the jog"- but the quick serpentining is *guaranteed* to fix that done regularly and give him one unbeatable perfect rhythym jog.

Thank you so very much for your plethora of information! I feel like I just read a training manual. I really appreciate you taking the time to type your thoughts! This helps very much and I can't wait to try it out!

[belle4]

IIIBars, that was great. You always give great, detailed advice!

[IIIBarsV]

I totally got on a bit of a rant (not at you guys), but because my mom's 3 yr old western pleasure gelding was at a trainer's for 6 weeks, and I knew things were not going well, but didn't realize just how little of the good things and how much of the wrong things this horse was learning until I rode him myself when we brought him home two weeks early......

Just "wow"- I was literally speechless at how "not trained" this 3 yr old is. My 3 yr old pony, who I've ridden maybe ten times this year with two week breaks lol, is more "broke" than this gelding. He does not accept the bit. His mouth is as hard as a rock. He does not move off leg or have much forward motion. He tail swishes if you touch him with your legs. He barely knows direct rein steering. For 6 weeks of training, he has zappo to show for it.

I knew he was a bit of a passive-aggressive dominant personality, and that he'd rather lean into pressure than give to it. But 6 weeks later, he still feels like a colt in the first two rides? Ridiculous. Luckily, by the end of our ride (which consisted of trotting everywhere and tons, tons of serpentining), and the help of a dressage whip, we had better softness on the bit, better steering, and a trot off from leg and voice cues. So it's not that he's a "dumb" colt- he learns quickly and his attitude was improving as well.

He was spur-ridden- but given his steering capacity (nada), I wonder how the trainer even rode him around the pen. We had asked the trainer not to ride with spurs, but apparently that went in one ear and out the other.

I can get this 3 yr old going well... but my god does he feel like he's been shut down hardcore. He started half-loping when I was trying to get him to trot out.

So my goals nowadays is to spread around as much information on how not to end up with horses that have these same problems- thank god they are correctable issues!

I really hope you have fun playing with your horse on these things. He sounds very well-started anyways.

I do enjoy problem-solving with horses, don't get me wrong... but I would've liked to not have to start from scratch and take a $1300 loss on my gelding, lol. The other two I mentioned were bought with issues- this one had none, under saddle anyways.

[Sonny-Dee-Girl]

IIIBarsV- those are fantastic posts. I have sort of "chicken-pecked" my way through similar methods, but your very articulate posts there have helped me to identify some of the flaws in my technique. I really don't think I could have put it in together in an explanation like that, though. Very fantastic!!!

[QHLady13]

i have to agree! that info was GREAT! i am currently looking for a dressage trainer to work with us, i tried your "bumping" method and in 10 mins at a standstill Solace picked up what i was asking. made me so proud! just one question. at the walk (and eventually to the trot/canter) you release pressure but maintain rein contact for him to feel "on the bit" correct? it was a one step forward, three back at the walk. he would hold his head for a few seconds and then raise it again. we just worked at the walk for another 20mins and then ended on a good note. anytime his head came up i bumped, and when it went down the bumping stopped but i maintained light rein contact. is this what you were referring to? thanks!

[IIIBarsV]

Yeah, pretty much, QHlady. Basically enough contact that if you need to ask them to come down again, you get contact just by squeezing your fingers closed- makes it easier to catch them quickly so you don't get a yo-yo effect and have to scramble. That is much more subtle in the showring because it doesn't involve moving your elbow or lifting your wrists, especially if you ride equitation or want to make a good impression on the judge. It's also riding softer, and given the choice of a hard cue or a light one, the horse will pick the light cue every time.

Eventually and with consistency, you could get the horse to the point where all you have to do is *think* about closing your fingers and squeezing your calves, and they will collect. lol

Either way, the end result looks and feels like a million bucks, and it's not likely you'll ever risk having your show horse come up sour. I saw a 5 yr old yesterday at a show who cleaned up last year in the local clubs, and is 100% ringsour this year... it kept pitching fits and trying to buck when asked to do anything, then the girl would stop what she was doing and turn the horse in circles for an hour and jerk on his mouth. I was like "How is this helping you tell your horse 'No, we're going to keep cantering until you do it nicely?' "... it was pretty clear the horse had been pushed to hard too soon, and roughly at that. He was not enjoying his job at all.