[d_dancer721]

Hey guys,

My boyfriend had an idea that at the time sounded pretty lame but now that I think about it, it could be for the good of the horse and a person.

Would it make any sense to go out and buy a few cheap or free 'problem' horses (or ones no one wants anymore) and retrain them, show them and then sell them? Horses that people just either dont have the time for or no one really wants? I would have to find a somewhat cheap stable to board 2 horses at the same time at but in the end I'd make like 5 times the amount I spent on the horse.

This would be for the horses benefit as well, since if I hadnt bought it the horse would be either meat or maybe something else for a while but the eventual reality is that those type of horses will eventually die right? If I save them and retrain them then people can use them and will want them, saving them from being sent to a glue factory (thats the last thing Id want to happen).

Anyway just wanting some input before I start something potentially stupid on my part.

[foxyfuzz]

I can see your train of thought.

My question is where/when/at what point does it become horse traiding? My dad raised me with the phrase of beware of the horse trader, and I guess I have always wondered what thay may be.

BUT as you said you would be doing it for the horses benefit as they would go to slaughter places otherwise right?? So in that thought it would be a good alternative for them.....

[lolajane]

sounds ok by me as long as you aren't doing it for the money... who knows when an unexpected vet bill might arise.

[imjustjoking22]

Well and there is no guarantee that you will be able to successfully turn the horse around either.

[idlewild]

Well.... have you figured in the cost of boarding, showing, feeding, vetting, and other miscelaneous expenses that would incur with the average monthly care and upkeep of a horse?

What I am saying is... yes, you'll most likely be able to find a bunch of cheap, unwanted horses to retrain. But, in the long run... will what you sell them for actually recoup your OVERALL investment? The costs of owning a horse is not cheap. If what you sell the horse for in the end is less than what your total expenses for the horse were (initial purchase price + monthly upkeep during the time you own the horse), you are going to end up loosing money in the long run.

[horseguy]

Originally Posted by idlewild

Well.... have you figured in the cost of boarding, showing, feeding, vetting, and other miscelaneous expenses that would incur with the average monthly care and upkeep of a horse?

idlewild is right. Most people who explore this idea begin to find that it is the overhead that gets you in the end. If you have cheap feed available (I knew a young rider who's dad owned a dairy farm who had a great situation) or other means to keep the overhead low, it can work IF you have the skills to retrain horses.

The other consideration is now the economy appears to be turning south. I’d be concerned about this economy. I have been thorough the Stock Market crash of 1987 and many recessions in the horse business, and these kinds of times are difficult for someone doing what you propose. It is however a great time to buy a good horse at a discount.

If you can keep your overhead low, I’d suggest that you start with one very good horse that might have a specific problem that you know you can solve. It is safest to have a gelding over 6 years old that is well put together and pretty. These are the easiest horses to sell. The most important quality is that the horse “feels” safe. Even in a bad economy a safe nice horse is saleable because there are always new riders looking for a quiet horse. Also, top quality competitive horses, even though they may be expensive, also seem to be immune to shifts in the economy.

Be cautious and be prepared to lose all the money you invest. Hoses get sick and that can sometimes be the end of the line for your investment.

Good luck.

[JBandRio]

The only way you can be nearly guaranteed of making a profit on a resale like this is finding a real diamond in the rough that you can clean up, give a little refresher to, and sell in a few months.

Other than that, the cost of fboarding, feeding, the farrier, and vaccinating can quickly start to eat into any profit. The more "troubled" the horse is, the longer it will take to turn him around, and the less experienced you are at dealing with problem horses, the longer still.

Then the cost of showing has to be taken into account. Schooling shows can be pretty cheap, but they also don't typically add much to a horse's value unless it's a higher end series. And if you aren't a really good rider who can bring out the best in a green horse, you'll be showing the horse's weaknesses and people don't want to buy that If you are a good rider and want to get the horse noticed, you'll have to go to bigger shows which cost more.

Unless you already have a bit of a name for yourself in selling quality horses (or finding them), you're client base is probably going to be those who don't want to spend a lot of $$ on a horse to begin with, so you won't be able to sell the horse for as much as if you were a bigger name.

If you want to try it, there's nothing wrong with trying. I'd suggest starting with ONE horse though, to minimize your losses.

[LuvinThePaint]

It would also depend on what the problem was with the horse and are you able to handle that problem. You might get something like my parents and have a horse seem ok, just not had a lot of contact and next thing you know you are dodging hooves. You really have to watch cause some of them can't be helped and you don't want to get hurt take the chance that the next person does either.

I like your idea as I hate to see any horse put down because of a problem or the fact that no one wants it but please just be careful on which one you get and don't be afraid to stop the training with a horse if you feel that you are in over your head and may get hurt by it.

[Berlunz]

To be honest it sounds like this is NOT the thing for you. We have done this since we got into horses and you seem to have many misconceptions about what is going to happen. First off you are almost never going to make 5x's what you payed for the horse, if your lucky you will make a couple hundred and not lose any money on it.

There is also a lot of effort that goes into this, a horse that is being sold as a "problem" horse is usually there for a reason. So instead of thinking "That owner is mean and nasty and just not willing to try and wants the horse to be meat" Think, why would they sell this horse? Lots of people who came to buy horses from us (the market went down the drain so we had to stop training and turning over horses etc), Would always say "Oh but you only payed $500 for the horse why should I pay $1500 when I can just go to the auction and get one for $300. Truth is they are paying for the risk, we took a risk in buying the horse from auction and could have been ripped off.

You have to stop and think, they are there usually for a reason. Once in a while you get a diamond in the rough but odds are most times you will get scammed, especially if you dont know the people at the auction (one of the BIGGEST advantages you can have is to be friends with everyone and know everything. This way you are less likely to be tricked into buying a lame horse and you will know who does sell bad horses).

Stop and take into consideration all the time thats going to have to go into this. A horse doesnt become trained overnight, especially not a problem horse. We bought some horses that I spent months working with just to get the basics down and during that whole time we had to feed, care for and worm and usually had to supplement because they were skinny.

Also consider that some horses can never be fixed no matter what you do. Probably one of our worst was an 17hh+ 18 year old TB gelding who when we saddled him up broke 3 ropes and tried to kick us several times. We just figured he had bad saddling manners but then went to get on him and he flipped over backwards into a tree and then refused to get back up once he was laying on the ground (He was not hurt in any way this was just his method of getting out of riding). It took 6 of us to get him up off the ground and after changing saddles and trying a really soft bit and bridle we didnt even get a foot in the stirrup before he flipped over again. We couldnt even sell him as a companion horse since the night before he had run 2 horses into a fence post and broken our pen. What would you do if you got a horse like that? Or how about a lame horse? What do you do then? Take them back to the meat market? I can gaurantee you, you will take a loss.

Consider the market right now, since this is a double dagger for what you want to do. Right now since the meat market is dead, lame and ill tempered horses are at auction for a dime a dozen, its hard to find a decent horse now since all the bad ones just keep circulating. Also when you go to sell, if someone who has a decent horse that has been professionally trained and showed sucessfully and ridden for years can barely sell their horse for what its worth, how are you going to make any money off your turn around horse?

I dont want you to think I am harsh but based on what you are saying there I dont think you really understand what you are possibly getting into.

I would also like to dispell the "They would wind up as meat" theory. If a horse is at all decent, the killer buyer will turn it around fast for a quick buck, they dont take a horse they can make money off of to slaughter. I know people who are killer buyers and people who used to be killer buyers and they all do the same thing. buy all the cheap horses and any decent ones go home and get another chance. They even keep registration papers of horses that they sold to the meat house for any future horses they can turn over. In other words they keep the papers of a sorrel QH mare with a blaze who was so lame she could barely walk. A few weeks down the road they see a nice looking grade sorrel mare with a blaze that could pass as the QH on the papers and she is sold for cheap and a decent horse. They then sell her as a registered QH mare with the papers from the other horse. Is it fair or right? No but it proves they arent evil people cackling in the corner trying to take everything they can get their hands on to kill it. DNA testing has stopped some of this but it wont stop it for geldings etc. Foals are big ticket items for them, despite people constantly scrambling to "save" foals, a foal very rarely ends up at slaughter because the killer buyers can turn them fast with no effort for money.

[mncowgirl]

I agree that there is more to think about here.

Right now horse prices are in the gutter, so it is a GREAT time to buy.

The problem is that everyone thinks that they should be able to get a super broke horse for there 5 kids to ride for $600. (From a real ad.)

The truth is that good horses are still bringing good money, but you have to be able to market the horse possibly for a long time which cuts into profits.

Make sure that you know the how much the horse will cost you per month, so you know how quick you need to turn them around.

You might get your money back, but you usually will not get much for your time and also remember the risk that you'll have to take on especially on a "problem" horse.