Need help..Have you ever dealt with this???

firestorm · 03-06-2005, 07:09 AM

Ok ladies and gentlemen

, here is my major problem. I have a thoroughbred mare..very highly bred (goes back to Seabiscuit and Man O' War) and she is not doing well. I got her straight off the racetrack where she was raced. Her trainer fed straight grain. Only during the winter did she get a fleek of hay. She was fat and very shiny when I brought her home. I however do not feed straight grain
*cringing at the thought of it* and she has lost weight and will not gain no matter what I do. She gets 5lbs of 12% sweet grain, 3 oz vitamins, 3 oz of soy bean meal and 1 lbs calf manna per day plus all the good quality hay she can stuff down her pretty lil throat. Oh and I forgot, I put roughly an ounce of corn oil on her grain at every feeding to boost the fat content. Her teeth are fine (vet checked). I am currently unemployeed due to an injury and cant afford to spend hundreds of dollars on tests, ect.
Another thing, she also has a mineral block and a white salt block in her paddock at all times. She has to be getting all the mins and vits she needs, but she just doesnt seem to metabolize the hay and put on weight.
My fear of colic, ect. will not allow me to put her back on a free for all grain deit. Any suggestions out there??? Im at wits end!!!!!

madvoice · 03-06-2005, 07:22 AM

Some TBs don't do well on low grain diets. My gelding is like that. I've been feeding him steam flaked barley (molassed) and extruded/micronized corn and he's the fattest he's ever been since I've had him. Its taken me years to find a diet where he does really well.
Flaked barley does not require soaking so it can be fed as is. It is also great for putting on weight. Extruded or micronized corn is easier to digest than cracked or whole corn and doesn't seem to cause as much fizziness.
I work on metric instead of imperial so I'll give you my measurements just to let you know.
I feed 1kg of barley and 750g of corn per feed. With this is about 4kgs of Lucerne chaff (alfalfa chaff for the US types). I also feed soya meal (about 1 metric cupful). I also allow my gelding ad lib hay (not necessarily top quality but I make sure that its there to keep him busy). My gelding is 15.3hh and currently weighs in at about 1000lb (going by weight tape). He is a fine build so I don't expect him to be extremely fat. It also doesn't help that he has a fast metabolism.

Blistering Winds · 03-06-2005, 09:07 AM

She lived this long with no hay and only grain? I doubt that very seriously. Most race trainers have their hosres on free access to hay outside their doors. Horse can reach over and nibble at their desire.

TB's have been bred basically to need a lot of energy requirements. So they are widely known, once off the track, as HARD KEEPERS, because the owners do not understand their metabolism requirements. Add the grain again. You will see the difference. High hay, High grain and the hosre will be great. It is what the horse was "born" to eat. We have bred them this way, their bodies adapted this way, so don't screw with nature.

Find out what exactly she ate if you could. But majority of them are either on a balanced "high fat" diet, or on a self-mixed oats, and a variety of other stuff dumped in.

Either way, I bet she was on a high fat performance diet, as that is what I see and hear from many race trainers/owners. Try a diet with the fat already tied into it, instead of top-dressing it.

Provide hay at all times, her body will adjust as needed over time to eat more hay. But you cannot do it in one sitting as you have now seen. If she was on a low hay diet, her body has little to no microbes to digest hay, which you have to have to digest hay at all.

ladida · 03-06-2005, 09:16 AM

When we got our tb, she was 100 lbs underweight. We tried everything, but couldnt risk her getting really "hot". The thing we found that works the best is beet pulp. After using it for a month the improvements were noticable. Also try Rice bran, that works for us. Currently she is getting beet pulp, a lb of rice bran, daily wormer, and weight maintenace. She also has a salt block, etc.

Top Dun · 03-06-2005, 09:22 AM

It is HIGHLY likely that she could have ulcers from the high grain diet. You might want to find out if she does have ulcers and then put her on a ulcer medication. Additionally not all horses can be on a hay only diet. You may need to add in grains on a gradual basis. I don't agree with putting her on a free choice grain only diet as that is even more likely to add to an ulcer problem. Grains alter the pH level of the intestinal fluids and can creat more problems. However grains or additional feeds is necessary in some horses. IF your vet does not agree you may want to seek a second opinion.

You might also want to consider adding in beet pulp or rice bran to the diet.

firestorm · 03-06-2005, 10:41 AM

i know exactly what she was fed as I worked with her trainer at the track...its how I got her for only $600. She was fed a complete grain...NO hay

firestorm · 03-06-2005, 11:29 AM

She is currently being fed grain..reread original post

Blistering Winds · 03-06-2005, 01:43 PM

Then go back to her origional diet, just with hay added. Once she gets back up to a body condition of 4.5 - 5, begin to change her over slow to something you prefer more.

madvoice · 03-06-2005, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by firestorm

She is currently being fed grain..reread original post

I noticed that you said you were feeding grain but not as to what type whether it was corn, oats or barley or a pre bought mixture.

Feeding some Brewer's Yeast or probiotic can help restore the healthy bacteria to the gut as well so she can cope with more hay.

Do you have any recent pics of your mare? The only reason I ask is to see what her current body condition score would be. You also haven't mentioned as to how long your mare has been 'Off The Track'. With all TBs that I've bought/rescued from racing stables, it often takes anywhere between 6 - 12 months for their metabolism to adjust to the change in feed and lifestyle.

It took me several years to find out EXACTLY what my TB gelding required. I was given the grain diet that I'm currently using by my vet. I expected my horse to get really hot with the grain diet but surprisingly he's no different than before.

SirCharles · 03-06-2005, 10:36 PM

Didn't notice you say but has she been wormed? My TB goes down hill if he is not wormed reg. then he picks up again and is great. Just a suggestion.

03-06-2005, 07:09 AM	#1
firestorm Senior Member+ Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: southern Illinois Posts: 579 Images: 91 Blog Entries: 8	Need help..Have you ever dealt with this??? Ok ladies and gentlemen , here is my major problem. I have a thoroughbred mare..very highly bred (goes back to Seabiscuit and Man O' War) and she is not doing well. I got her straight off the racetrack where she was raced. Her trainer fed straight grain. Only during the winter did she get a fleek of hay. She was fat and very shiny when I brought her home. I however do not feed straight grain cringing at the thought of it and she has lost weight and will not gain no matter what I do. She gets 5lbs of 12% sweet grain, 3 oz vitamins, 3 oz of soy bean meal and 1 lbs calf manna per day plus all the good quality hay she can stuff down her pretty lil throat. Oh and I forgot, I put roughly an ounce of corn oil on her grain at every feeding to boost the fat content. Her teeth are fine (vet checked). I am currently unemployeed due to an injury and cant afford to spend hundreds of dollars on tests, ect. Another thing, she also has a mineral block and a white salt block in her paddock at all times. She has to be getting all the mins and vits she needs, but she just doesnt seem to metabolize the hay and put on weight. My fear of colic, ect. will not allow me to put her back on a free for all grain deit. Any suggestions out there??? Im at wits end!!!!! __________________ www.myspace.com/cowgirlin_it_up RIP... LS "135" ..12/7/1958 - 9/29/2005~I will never forget you my friend. "Adios" ~ Howard "Montana" Bates~Jan. 13, 1940 - Jun. 3, 2006 ~someday we will ride together again

03-06-2005, 07:22 AM	#2
madvoice Senior Member+ Join Date: May 2004 Location: Humpty Doo, Northern Territory, Australia Posts: 9,689 Images: 281	Some TBs don't do well on low grain diets. My gelding is like that. I've been feeding him steam flaked barley (molassed) and extruded/micronized corn and he's the fattest he's ever been since I've had him. Its taken me years to find a diet where he does really well. Flaked barley does not require soaking so it can be fed as is. It is also great for putting on weight. Extruded or micronized corn is easier to digest than cracked or whole corn and doesn't seem to cause as much fizziness. I work on metric instead of imperial so I'll give you my measurements just to let you know. I feed 1kg of barley and 750g of corn per feed. With this is about 4kgs of Lucerne chaff (alfalfa chaff for the US types). I also feed soya meal (about 1 metric cupful). I also allow my gelding ad lib hay (not necessarily top quality but I make sure that its there to keep him busy). My gelding is 15.3hh and currently weighs in at about 1000lb (going by weight tape). He is a fine build so I don't expect him to be extremely fat. It also doesn't help that he has a fast metabolism. __________________ Sep 1997 - 15 Jan 2006 ~Fry Baby I'll Miss You~ I'm not a complete idiot.. Some parts are missing I was too busy admiring the inside of my eyelids when HGS hit 3 million posts..

03-06-2005, 09:07 AM	#3
Blistering Winds Senior Member+ Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Augusta, Kansas Posts: 31,979 Images: 831 Blog Entries: 17	She lived this long with no hay and only grain? I doubt that very seriously. Most race trainers have their hosres on free access to hay outside their doors. Horse can reach over and nibble at their desire. TB's have been bred basically to need a lot of energy requirements. So they are widely known, once off the track, as HARD KEEPERS, because the owners do not understand their metabolism requirements. Add the grain again. You will see the difference. High hay, High grain and the hosre will be great. It is what the horse was "born" to eat. We have bred them this way, their bodies adapted this way, so don't screw with nature. Find out what exactly she ate if you could. But majority of them are either on a balanced "high fat" diet, or on a self-mixed oats, and a variety of other stuff dumped in. Either way, I bet she was on a high fat performance diet, as that is what I see and hear from many race trainers/owners. Try a diet with the fat already tied into it, instead of top-dressing it. Provide hay at all times, her body will adjust as needed over time to eat more hay. But you cannot do it in one sitting as you have now seen. If she was on a low hay diet, her body has little to no microbes to digest hay, which you have to have to digest hay at all. __________________ HGS is a very powerful, addicting place that is just as bad as cigarettes, however healthier for you AND your horse.

03-06-2005, 09:16 AM	#4
ladida Senior Member+ Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: California Posts: 3,727 Images: 221 Blog Entries: 33	When we got our tb, she was 100 lbs underweight. We tried everything, but couldnt risk her getting really "hot". The thing we found that works the best is beet pulp. After using it for a month the improvements were noticable. Also try Rice bran, that works for us. Currently she is getting beet pulp, a lb of rice bran, daily wormer, and weight maintenace. She also has a salt block, etc. __________________ Turn my grief to grace. R.I.P Mister, Zoe and Gilly She-Is-a-belle Member of the FF club for life!

03-06-2005, 09:22 AM	#5
Top Dun Senior Member+ Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: New Mexico Posts: 5,702 Images: 183 Blog Entries: 1	It is HIGHLY likely that she could have ulcers from the high grain diet. You might want to find out if she does have ulcers and then put her on a ulcer medication. Additionally not all horses can be on a hay only diet. You may need to add in grains on a gradual basis. I don't agree with putting her on a free choice grain only diet as that is even more likely to add to an ulcer problem. Grains alter the pH level of the intestinal fluids and can creat more problems. However grains or additional feeds is necessary in some horses. IF your vet does not agree you may want to seek a second opinion. You might also want to consider adding in beet pulp or rice bran to the diet. __________________ Cattle Producers DO NOT want NAIS: When asked if they thought NAIS should be a mandatory system requiring all U.S. cattle producers to participate, 21.22% of respondents said yes, 50.32% said no, and 28.46% were undecided.

03-06-2005, 10:41 AM	#6
firestorm Senior Member+ Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: southern Illinois Posts: 579 Images: 91 Blog Entries: 8	i know exactly what she was fed as I worked with her trainer at the track...its how I got her for only $600. She was fed a complete grain...NO hay __________________ www.myspace.com/cowgirlin_it_up RIP... LS "135" ..12/7/1958 - 9/29/2005~I will never forget you my friend. "Adios" ~ Howard "Montana" Bates~Jan. 13, 1940 - Jun. 3, 2006 ~someday we will ride together again

03-06-2005, 11:29 AM	#7
firestorm Senior Member+ Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: southern Illinois Posts: 579 Images: 91 Blog Entries: 8	She is currently being fed grain..reread original post __________________ www.myspace.com/cowgirlin_it_up RIP... LS "135" ..12/7/1958 - 9/29/2005~I will never forget you my friend. "Adios" ~ Howard "Montana" Bates~Jan. 13, 1940 - Jun. 3, 2006 ~someday we will ride together again

03-06-2005, 01:43 PM	#8
Blistering Winds Senior Member+ Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Augusta, Kansas Posts: 31,979 Images: 831 Blog Entries: 17	Then go back to her origional diet, just with hay added. Once she gets back up to a body condition of 4.5 - 5, begin to change her over slow to something you prefer more. __________________ HGS is a very powerful, addicting place that is just as bad as cigarettes, however healthier for you AND your horse.

03-06-2005, 10:36 PM	#10
SirCharles Senior Member+ Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Yakima WA Posts: 346 Images: 17	Didn't notice you say but has she been wormed? My TB goes down hill if he is not wormed reg. then he picks up again and is great. Just a suggestion.