[gypsy84]

Last winter I was working with a broodmare that is about 8 years old, and was hardly halter broke. I began to start her under saddle last year, got her more respectful and easier to deal with on the ground, but she developed a cough and before I was really able to start her she was put out to pasture.

I'm starting to work with her again now, and she seems to remember everything I taught her (lunging, voice commands, leading, etc.) She's easy to tack up and I sat on her yesterday for the first time since last winter, got led around for about 10 minutes, and she was fine.

99% of the time, she is sweet as can be, loves scratched, ears forward, likes hugs, easy to catch etc.. But every once in a while it's like something clicks and she turns nasty. My sister was holding her for me yesterday while I went to get my vest and helmet on, and she said she patted her on the neck, and I turned around to see the mare with ears pinned, swinging her hindquarters towards my sister. She smacked her butt and, since she was in the roundpen, made her go out on the rail. After I was done riding her, I jumped off, and I guess the noise or the sudden movement set her off again (I was moving around in the saddle the whole time and it didn't bother her..), her ears pinned and she glared at me and went to swing her HQ's at me, so I sent her to the rail and made her work.. Then remounted and dismounted again with no issue.

What's the best way to deal with a horse like this? Carry a whip constantly? Make her work when she does something like this? She's relatively intelligent and is quite sensitive, but I have a feeling she's just had her own way for so long that she thinks she's the boss, and treats humans like horses... I don't want to lose her trust, but she needs to know that threatening humans is NOT acceptable.

[EVOO]

I think you did the right thing in both instances. Quickly reprimand her, make her work and forget it as soon as her attitude is where it should be.

The only thing I would add is that with horses like this, imo, they need to be kept on top of. I might tolerate a glare from another horse that's not nasty, but with these ones the very, very smallest wrong look and I'm on top of them for it because I know they mean something with it and will take it to that next level whereas with another horse it's just a "are you kidding me? I don't wanna do that" kind of thing.

[Pirate]

Keep alert with her and keep doing what you're doing.

[Haas Horse Farm]

Consistency... just be firm and always respond to her behavior. I think you have the right idea. Just keep doing what you are doing. BTW so glad to see you are not falling for the: "Oh you poor horsey I must have done something wrong to make you pin your ears at me. " The horse is not acting they way you want it to because IT wants to be nasty. So glad you are putting a stop to it. I have seen some cases where the horse got dangerous because the rider "thought" it was something they did and never corrected the horse. The horses behavior escalated and the horse eventually put a couple of people in the hospital with broken bones. Anyway if you got through all that I am just trying to say BRAVO ON YOU!!!!! Keep up the good work. You are doing just the right thing. Glad your sister is on the same page too.

[CaitlynH]

Good job for not letting her get away with it! When you round pen her do you use lots of changes of direction, to the inside? If you're just having her trot around one way for a while, you're not really working her mind.

[meljean]

Has this happened with any particular timing? Once a month, weekly, every day?
Is this possibly because of being in heat? Some mares never are bothered by that, but other mares, once a month you can count on them being touchy, and it is so common they used to have shirts with sayings on them about it, tastefully of course?
If it is happening more frequently, and she is as evil looking as you say, then I would wonder about something else, brain abscess, or tumor?
I can not see mare of course, but if you are getting feeling that she is that mean, but only 1% of time, then this sounds like more than a respect issue. And may want to get vet?

[Haas Horse Farm]

I really have to say that my guess is there is nothing medical here at all. This mare was probably one that was allowed to be mean in a previous life and so now she wants to continue that. Many times meanness is learned because we as the owners allow it to escalate.

[meljean]

I really thought that at first too, about she had just been allowed to be mean, except OP says, "it's like something clicks" and the way she describes the vibes the mare is putting out. And her description of the other things she does with horse don't jell with one that bossy, to me. I hope you are right though, because what I am wondering is expensive/or incurable.
Also wonder if something going on in surroundings? Other horses getting fed/too close to her/running around in pasture?
And this is going to sound odd, but you are in Canada, so I don't know what kind of grasses you have there, or the like. But has this year been different in terms of weather? Could there maybe something she ingested that could be causing this? Call your Dept of Agriculture up there, and ask about pamphlet on poisonous weeds. Or type in search bar and see what you get.

There is something running through my mind of something similar to what OP describes, can't pull it out, but had something to do with a weed, and the weed was only toxic in certain weather conditions, like a really wet summer?? and did not cause constant problem, just once in while??
Maybe I will remember better after good nights sleep, I just am tired now.
I hope Haas is correct though.

[gypsy84]

Well, as an update...

I've worked with her consistently since I first posted this thread... She hasn't improved at all. In fact, she's starting to get meaner. If I don't have the whip while lunging, she'll charge me. When I hold the whip, she pins her ears through the transitions but does them without challenging me. She has consistently turned "mean" while I've been working with her, for no reason at all.

On Sunday I was riding her around at a walk, and used light leg pressure to ask her to yield her hindquarters to the outside. My sister was standing in the middle of the cricle I was on, and the mare pinned her ears, and started backing towards her.. I yelled to get out of the way, and used the crop to correct her. She started bucking, and I was very lucky to be able to one-rein-stop her. Thankfully I taught her that before I ever got on...

Since the owner wanted this mare to be used for kids eventually, I decided to bring it up with her, since I could never see her being trustworthy around kids, and even around adults. She agreed that because of her temperament and unpredictability, the mare is going to be retired to pasture, and I am going to put more training on the two paint mares I already started.

*Sigh* maybe someone has the skills to deal with a horse like this, but that person is not me... I'm just not willing to risk getting hurt, or someone else get hurt because of me. I feel a relieved, but a little disappointed as well...

[Rhythm 'n Blues]

I honestly feel the owner is taking the "easy way out" here. Why not do a bit more work, and see if there just might be something that is causing this mare to be nasty?? As you said it has gotten worse, so why not see if perhaps she's *out* somwhere?? Many hroses have turned darn right nasty simply because they were in serious need of chiro adjustments. Honestly based on your 1st post, I would agree, most likely it's jsut behaviourable, but your update suggest to me something could be bothering her.

I'm sorry, I totally know where you're coming from, I am currently working with a 10y/o mare who has never been asked to do a darn THING in her life. Yes she could wear a halter when I started with her, but that's honestly IT, no feet picking up, nothing. Trust me this mare has not been fun, and there have been more than 1 or 2 occasions where both her owner and I have discussed her leaving, however, she's seeming to make some progress. We're both now thinking that perhaps a Chiro appt is needed just to rule out any possiblity of that being a problem....our problem? We honestly don't trust her to stand well enough with someone standing on a huge box beside her! (mare is no where near ready to be backed) Trust me, there is a reason she has been dumbed "Nasty Wench Mare" She is just one lucky girl that she has ONE PILE of potential, and is ONE GORGEOUS mare....otherwise I would have washed my hands with her months ago!

Honestly, I think a bit of work up is what is needed in your case.