[Haas Horse Farm]

Just curious is it because she is dark or ? :-)

[babyruth]

Originally Posted by accphotography

I, frankly, would like more evidence the sire is not dun himself before I am too inclined to think the mare is. If he is not, for sure, and parentage testing proves the parents are the correct parents... I will fall over. I suspected "hidden" duns... but this mare would not have fallen into that category for me. No shots of her back I don't suppose?

ACC

No, I don't think I have any shots of her back. I will have to go back through pictures and see what I can find or else I will attempt to get up to where she is and get a good one.

[babyruth]

Okay, my brother is straddling the fence on this now.....

While he really doesn't care one way or the other if she is a dun and he just wants everyone to be correctly registered and what not......

He had planned on breeding Rose to Zanalyst de Noche for next year and he is black. For some reason my brother can not stand grullas, lmao he was even making gagging and vomiting noises over the phone at the thought of having one..... .

*If* she is a bay/dun or brown/dun and she is bred to a black horse then chances are he will get a grulla....right? He is bummed out because he has been waiting and hoping and wanting to breed her to this horse for three years now and his parade is getting rained on....lol.

[RiddleMeThis]

It depends on her Agouti status. If she is homozygous for agouti then no not a chance for a grulla. If however she is Aa then its about 50/50 IF one of them is homozygous for black.

[Shannon]

Originally Posted by babyruth

*If* she is a bay/dun or brown/dun and she is bred to a black horse then chances are he will get a grulla....right? He is bummed out because he has been waiting and hoping and wanting to breed her to this horse for three years now and his parade is getting rained on....lol.

No, not at all You could very well end up with a dun, bay/brown, or black foal If Rose is homozygous for Agouti or is A/At (bay/brown), then there's NO chance of a black or grulla foal. If she is A/a or At/a, you have just as much chance of a grulla as you do a dun, black, or bay/brown foal.

Keep in mind, they could also have a 25% chance of throwing a red-based foal if both rose and the black sire are heterozygous for black.

So I wouldn't fret too much And if he does end up with a grulla, I'd happily take it off your hands!

[Brogan]

okay i really don't understand how guys are calling these horses duns-- when the mare looks like a bay and her baby looks like a buckskin

i just want to say now before some take this post the wrong way-- i'm really not familiar with duns, i've always just thought that they were darker buckskin

that being said-- is it the markings that distinguishes them (ie: the dark points and dorsal stripe), or is it the coloring itself?

i've been meaning to ask this question before as i have been seeing similiar topics alot more lately

[RiddleMeThis]

Originally Posted by Brogan

okay i really don't understand how guys are calling these horses duns-- when the mare looks like a bay and her baby looks like a buckskin

i just want to say now before some take this post the wrong way-- i'm really not familiar with duns, i've always just thought that they were darker buckskin

that being said-- is it the markings that distinguishes them (ie: the dark points and dorsal stripe), or is it the coloring itself?

i've been meaning to ask this question before as i have been seeing similiar topics alot more lately

Buckskin and dun are completely different. There are some pony breeds that call their duns buckskin or their buckskins dun, but thats besides the point. Buckskin and dun are completely different.

As to why we call them dun it is defiantely the marking. Duns will ALWAYS have a VERY prominent dorsal stripe. Buckskins may have counter shading which look like dorsals but are not. It is the markings not hte color that show dun.

[Brogan]

so is it just the dorsal stripe that makes the dun a dun?

[RiddleMeThis]

Its a dorsal and thigns like leg barring wither barring/shading and a few other markings too but yes. A dorsal MUST be there for it to be a dun

[Shannon]

Originally Posted by Brogan

so is it just the dorsal stripe that makes the dun a dun?

Originally Posted by RiddleMeThis

Its a dorsal and thigns like leg barring wither barring/shading and a few other markings too but yes. A dorsal MUST be there for it to be a dun

A dun always means a dorsal stripe, but a dorsal stripe does not always mean dun

Duns will have different combinations of "dun factor," which include the dorsal stripe, zebra striping on legs, shoulder barring, darker face "mask," etc. They will ALWAYS have the dorsal stripe though.

However, countershading can cause these markings as well. You can have a plain bay horse with a dorsal stripe and shoulder barring, but it's still a bay. Take a look at huntseat's mare Melody-- perfect example. Yesterday I saw a liver chestnut horse (looked to be a Swedish Warmblood in body type, but it was definitely a warmblood) with a VERY prominent dorsal stripe and VERY obvious masking on its face. But it was just a liver chestnut with coundershading. It was different for sure!

I'll mention one last thing that is one of the more difficult things for people not familiar with color genetics to grasp. Color is defined by GENOTYPE, not PHENOTYPE. That means, it's determined by what is on the DNA, not by how the horse actually looks

For example, does this horse look buckskin to you?



It doesn't to me really, but he is genetically buckskin, so he is buckskin, not bay as he appears Colors and shades can really vary, so it can be impossible to determine what color some horses are just by looking at them

Probably more information than necessary, but oh well!