[Horsebrat20]

When i go on hunter paces, we're constantly at a quick clip. Usually trot and canter. Last time, all i did was work on being able to stop her, and get her hind end underneath her. She falls onto her forehand when going that quick on trails, as i'm sure most horses do, plus she's built down hill to begin with. Well, i want to not concentrate so much on halting and collecting this coming hunter pace, and concentrate on competing. But i don't want her to buid up her shoulder muscels any more than they already are. Is there anything i can do while on the hunter pace, to strengthen her butt muscles, and use her topline more? Will long and low do this? It's really good exercise going on 12 mile hunter paces, but i don't want her to build up the wrong muscels, but i also want to actually compete this time. Any suggestions?

She also gets really heavy after we go over a jump. I know this is mostly inexperience, but what can i do to help her, besides stay firm with my body and wait for her to get back up? Thanks for any tips.

[lms]

Trot work on hills and transition work are very good muscle builders. Long and low are the first step in top line work (stretching) but this must be done with contact (deep) and the back 'brought up' to the rider in order to do any building.

[Horsebrat20]

What do you mean by "deep"? When i do long and low, i put contact on her mouth, and when she stretches down, i allow the reins to slide through my fingers, but i don't let her go down too far, then i keep a steady contact (well, i try to at least, she usually doesn't stay down for very long), how will i know she is using her self correctly, and not just falling on the forehand? She already has a good topline, she knows all about stretching and contact, but on the trails, she just falls all over the place. Partly because i don't want to push her too hard to stay collected up, obviously it takes a lot of work to do that, and i can't expect her to hold it the whole time. How do i know that she is using herself correctly when we are doing a posting trot? See, i can feel it a little when she starts to come underneath herself when i'm doing sitting trot, but posting, i can't feel it too well, and i don't want to be cranking her head in, but have her butt in noman's land. My trainer is teaching me to be firm with my upper body, and when Blue gets a little lost or resistant, she'll "run into" my upper body. But i don't know how to tell when she is using her hind quarters efficiently, they always feel like thier way out behind, but i know that isn't the case. The other day my trainer said she was using her butt a lot (really deep footing) and that i should give her a break, but to me, i didn't feel a thing.

On the trails, i want to be able to be trotting her at a good clip, and know that she is actually carrying herself. I'm just so confused, because i can't tell. Any other suggestions? THanks.

[ladida]

I would just make her go faster and then slowing her down while making her use her hind end. Just making her speed up and slow down I imagine would help, also lots of transitions but I don't know because you want to keep a slightly steady pace. Ask your trainer if you can.

[lms]

Riding 'deep' is a hot button issue with some dressage riders. Traditionally it was pushing the horse into the bit for a few steps, stretching 'down and under', working round and bringing the back up. Now, because some VERY successful riders (Anky) use it in a very exaggered way during training, it has become often over done and harmful. It is different from 'long and low' due to the fact the horse remains in balance and not stretching on to the forehand. It lowers the poll and the croup and in turn, brings more engagement which is the first step in building muscle. I only mentioned it as you said you worked long and low. If this is as a 'peanut roller' stretch, it is wonderful as a warm-up and suppling exercise but will not build muscle.

[cassidy]

i suppose getting her under herself would be the best way like working her as if you were schooling her

ims wouldnt uphill trot work also strengthen the shoukder muscles?

[Horsebrat20]

Thanks guys, i like the idea of speeding up and slowing down. That might work. Can you explain more Ims, about what you mean? I'm facinated to know what is controvercial and what not. I'm always curious about the long and low stuff, and collection, it's all kind of a mystery to me, because western horses go sort of long and low, and are considered collected and under themselves. But i hear from dressage, that if the horse is truley under themselves, it will automatically raise the base of the neck. How do i keep her in balance while in long and low? And when i say long and low, i mean her poll is about horizontal to her withers, maybe a little higher. I only go really low when i want her to really stretch down. Thanks.