Monty Roberts...

KristinJ · 10-24-2009, 09:37 AM

I read his book (the man who listens to horses) year ago when I was in like 6th grade, and I adored it of course. Is everything 100% true? I don't know, I was not there. From the BOOK it sounded good. Since then I have not read any other titles by him or see him either on TV or in person, so I cannot say what type of horseman he is. I did enjoy the book though.

PinkHorse · 10-24-2009, 09:59 AM

There is nothing new in the basis of what MR is preaching. These techniques have been used for ages by knowledgeable horseman and are used today by a multitude of trainers who don't give them a slick name and market themselves as the be all and end all to horse training.

My beef with MR is all the marketing and the way he dupes the average horseperson into buying overpriced, unecessary equipment & videos. At EA, he was demonstating the use of his Dually Halter. All the while he was literally hammering on this horse's head, he was talking to the crowd in a low, soothing, reassuring tone. A Dually halter functions as a war bridle - not a particularly pleasant piece of equipment and easily made at home with a spare length of rope.

The horses with loading problems were worked for upwards of 45 minutes until they were tired and asked to load on a brand new trailer with the partitions removed and the inside sparkling white in a well lit area. Round pen panels were added to create a chute and limit the ways the horse could evade. After all this, MR has somebody time him and the horse loads in 2 seconds. Did the horse really load in that short a time or did it really take and hour in front of the crowd and who knows how much longer before the demonstration?

Another of the problem horses would freak out if somebody tried to mount using a stirrup. MR's flunky got a leg up and rode the horse around for a while. MR proclaimed the horse fixed but nobody EVER got on using a stirrup. He got a HUGE round of applause. Are people that in thrall not to have noticed that the bad behaviour was never addressed?

Ester, I'm very glad you got the problems sorted out with your horse. I'll just ask you to consider if the knowledge you gained from MR is truly that unique. IMO, any knowledgeable horseperson should have been able to tell you that an aggressive, punishment-based approach seldom works and the way back to trust is always through thoughtful training that rewards the horse for good behaviour and steers them firmly and fairly away from bad behaviour.

noreins · 10-24-2009, 10:05 AM

How many trainers DONT sell over priced equipment? Just a side note.

estherj92 · 10-24-2009, 10:08 AM

good point...lol

PinkHorse · 10-24-2009, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by noreins

How many trainers DONT sell over priced equipment? Just a side note.

Lots of reputable trainers don't.

How many natural horsemanship gurus can say the same? I have no problem with making a living selling stuff. I do have a problem with it when it's apparently the sole objective and the horses/training take a back seat.

This will come across snarky but it's an honest question. Can somebody name me any of these "trainers" that have ever had a horse compete successfully at the upper levels of any discipline.

estherj92 · 10-24-2009, 10:14 AM

Monty Roberts owned Johnny Tivio who with him won several championships in the AQHA world.

noreins · 10-24-2009, 10:16 AM

I love Johnny Tivio btw. I love Stacy Westfall...are you saying she has never had a horse compete at high level shows???

PinkHorse · 10-24-2009, 10:17 AM

Johnny Tivio was trained and shown very successfully by Harry Rose before MR ever laid hands on him. How about one that a NH trainer was responsible for?

PinkHorse · 10-24-2009, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by noreins

I love Johnny Tivio btw. I love Stacy Westfall...are you saying she has never had a horse compete at high level shows???

I don't lump Stacy Westfall in the same group as MR, John Lyons, Clinton Anderson et al.

noreins · 10-24-2009, 10:26 AM

I don't lump any of them together, they are all individuals.

10-24-2009, 09:37 AM	#11
KristinJ Senior Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: New York Posts: 1,241 Images: 4	I read his book (the man who listens to horses) year ago when I was in like 6th grade, and I adored it of course. Is everything 100% true? I don't know, I was not there. From the BOOK it sounded good. Since then I have not read any other titles by him or see him either on TV or in person, so I cannot say what type of horseman he is. I did enjoy the book though. __________________ Proud Owner of: Answer to Prayer (Nikki) 1984 American Quarter Horse Gelding Charms Bachelor Will (William) 2008 American Solid Paint Horse Gelding Rambo 1991 Minature Pony Gelding "Anything forced or misunderstood can never be beautiful." -Xenophon

10-24-2009, 10:08 AM	#14
estherj92 Full Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 46 Images: 8	good point...lol __________________ "Horses take me for what I am, but they judge me by what I do." --Monty Roberts

10-24-2009, 10:14 AM	#16
estherj92 Full Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 46 Images: 8	Monty Roberts owned Johnny Tivio who with him won several championships in the AQHA world. __________________ "Horses take me for what I am, but they judge me by what I do." --Monty Roberts

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10-24-2009, 09:59 AM	#12
PinkHorse Senior Member+ Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: My Desk Posts: 1,018 Images: 50	There is nothing new in the basis of what MR is preaching. These techniques have been used for ages by knowledgeable horseman and are used today by a multitude of trainers who don't give them a slick name and market themselves as the be all and end all to horse training. My beef with MR is all the marketing and the way he dupes the average horseperson into buying overpriced, unecessary equipment & videos. At EA, he was demonstating the use of his Dually Halter. All the while he was literally hammering on this horse's head, he was talking to the crowd in a low, soothing, reassuring tone. A Dually halter functions as a war bridle - not a particularly pleasant piece of equipment and easily made at home with a spare length of rope. The horses with loading problems were worked for upwards of 45 minutes until they were tired and asked to load on a brand new trailer with the partitions removed and the inside sparkling white in a well lit area. Round pen panels were added to create a chute and limit the ways the horse could evade. After all this, MR has somebody time him and the horse loads in 2 seconds. Did the horse really load in that short a time or did it really take and hour in front of the crowd and who knows how much longer before the demonstration? Another of the problem horses would freak out if somebody tried to mount using a stirrup. MR's flunky got a leg up and rode the horse around for a while. MR proclaimed the horse fixed but nobody EVER got on using a stirrup. He got a HUGE round of applause. Are people that in thrall not to have noticed that the bad behaviour was never addressed? Ester, I'm very glad you got the problems sorted out with your horse. I'll just ask you to consider if the knowledge you gained from MR is truly that unique. IMO, any knowledgeable horseperson should have been able to tell you that an aggressive, punishment-based approach seldom works and the way back to trust is always through thoughtful training that rewards the horse for good behaviour and steers them firmly and fairly away from bad behaviour.

10-24-2009, 10:17 AM	#18
PinkHorse Senior Member+ Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: My Desk Posts: 1,018 Images: 50	Johnny Tivio was trained and shown very successfully by Harry Rose before MR ever laid hands on him. How about one that a NH trainer was responsible for?