[Dawn]

A horse is not going to have enough experience to be really reliable for a young and inexperienced rider until they are at least 5-6 years old simply because of the way that horses mature mentally. It does not matter the quality of training put on the horse nor really the amount. It is the mental state of the horse. You're looking at a horse right now that is a 'teenager' and will be until 5-6 years of age.

Ultimately the decision is up to you, but with a completely unbiased opinion, admit your mistakes and sell the horse. I honestly do not think that you will regret it. As is, you're getting two different opinions from two different people both with secondary interests. Your instructor does not want to admit that she made a bad recomendation. The trainer wants your business to train the horse. Only makes sense that they would say what they are saying.

Even on the ground, this horse is not 'safe' for your daughter. The horse is still a baby and there are many things that she has not been exposed to. Therefore, you will find yourself in many unpredictable situations with her.

Add to that the fact that young horses experience many and sometimes severe regressions in training. The horse might be fine one day under saddle. The next she might decide that she wants to find out what happens if she bucks. Then she'll be fine. Then one day she might decide she wants to find out what happens if she strikes while being led. Every horse regresses, some more and some less. But it happens.

[Super Step]

Sad Dad...

$1200 for 3 or 4 weeks seems way out of line to me.
After the additional $1200 you will still have a green horse with 30 days on him.
I have read the entire thread and do not have an answer or any advice not already offered.
If you shop around there may be other good competent trainers willing to work for less.

[trotplease]

Originally Posted by SadDad

Money wasnt an issue. I dont recall saying it was.

In my post I referenced finances as a reason that some of my students consider buying a young horse, rather than a more experienced one. I did not mean to infer that it had any basis on SadDad's decision, my apologies to anyone who may have misunderstood the direction I was taking when making this comment.

[tiffany]

well I haven't read every post word for word but I will say that rather than spending 1200 to train your green horse, why not spend that money on a well-broke older horse for your daughter? She can get just as much experience and form just as much of a bond on an older horse that is willing and patient to show her the ropes of ownership...

[monica-n-shiloh]

Flat out...you need a new trainer and instructor. This one just gets more idiotic by the minute if you ask me. Im sorry to be blunt but good grief. Does she want your daughter to get hurt or what? An 8 year old leading a 3 year old around is insane.

And as far as $1200... you can do better elsewhere. I still say get rid of this horse and get something that suits you better....

[timberline]

I'm a 22 year old adult who's been riding for 17 years...I have a three year old who I've owned since birth and am training myself...so speaking from experience when it comes to training young horses, get rid of this 3 year old and get your daughter a nice, safe, sensible older horse.
I also agree with the others who suggest a new instructor/trainer as well.
There's absolutely no way that it could be in your daughter's best interest (or even the horse's) to keep this horse. It's just serious trouble waiting to happen.

[Carly]

WOW! you guys are all VERY STONGLY OPINIONATED!!
So sorry SadDad.. I bet you didnt expect to start such a heated Debate...but believe it or not alot of things like this and worse happen in the"horse world" and most people arent as open minded as you have been to all of our suggestions.
You just have to try and see it from ours/minie/their point of view..Children/adults/ponies/Horses all get hurt when things like this and other happen..and its usually with the inexpirienced.
Im sorry if I offended anyone.

[CanadianWrangler]

Forgive me, this may be a little muddled in form, but I have to post it as I just awoke in the early early AM, and felt these things needed to be said on this subject.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

From the stand point of someone who's main market for broke horses is kids/youth horses, I can say that there are many variables that NEED to be assessed when purchasing a horse/pony.

All the variables are interconnected as well.

Horse's temperament
HOW the horse was trained
Level of Training
Youth/rider's experience, and physical capibilities/skills

================================================== =======

When I am training a horse for a youth/kid the first and foremost thing I look for is if the horse has a suitable temprament to be a youth/kids horse.
If the horse has an easy going, pleasant, and willing disposition then they can be trained to be youth/kid suitable. I also determine 'herd standing' aggressiveness (the less the better), how tolerant of being bossed the horse is (the more the better).

Once the MENTAL aspects of the horse are determined to be suitable then, and only then, do I start to do additional training on certain physical aspects.
I start ALL horses the same as I would a kids horse. Lots of desensitization, willingness, responsiveness, tolerance, and understanding of humans are to be considered 'alpha' at all times.
It is during the 'foundational' training that a true youth/kids horse will stand out. The most suitable ones are easy to desensitize, as well as train to be willing, and tolerant.

A horses age isn't really a big factor when you have a horse with the proper mind. Don't get me wrong, even then horses generally under 6 are NOT mentally mature enough, no matter the temperamet, for a beginner/youth/kid rider. A horse needs a certain amount of time of consistent, and proper training so that the foundational training is solid. If the horse is still unclear as to what any of the baisic cues, and correct responses are then they aren't fully trained enough for a youth/kid.

One aspect of training I am more adiment of doing on youth/kids horses is to ride like an inexperienced rider, but also ride proficiently too. This is one key element. The horse learns to be tolerant of 'heavy hands' a loose, somewhat disjointed manner of sitting, and being behind a horses manueovers (catching up to the horses movements).
But on the other hand I teach them to be repsonsive to 'gentle hands', take proper precues (initiating manueovers) from the seat, be responsive to cues, but be more energetic about listening to the proper cues.

Sounds strange, (and this may be confusing) but I use that 'respond to cue, but respond better to proper cue' as a tool for me to train the rider to be better. This works by training the horse to teach its rider that it responds better to proper cues. Similar to playing "pin-the-tail" on the donkey, but having the right spot beep when you get close to it and have it buzz when you hit it.

From there I also train the horses to be responsive to direct, and indirect reining, and ensure both are interchangable whenever. I also ensure that the horse is willing, and responsive in the lightest bit possible.

I view it that if a 'kids horse' has to have a highly ported leveraged bit (or any manner of severe bit) at all times that may be a sign that horse actually ISN'T a kids horse. Not true in all instances, but definately a lot.

I personally will ride the horse I am showing in a snaffle, AND the best choice of port/gag/shanked bit for that horse. In escence showing the horse twice.

When I am showing a potential purchaser a horse for thier child/children, I am extrememly scrutinous of HOW they handle the horse, and determine myself what thier level of skill is. From there I usually have anther couple of horses available that might be more suitable to the skill level I am seeing, or refuse to sell that horse for that rider.

I have had numerous clients say "oh he/she is a good rider, lots of experience, or even as far as he/she can 'finish' train a horse". Put them on an exceptional horse, and SEE that none of the above is true what so ever.

I as a marketer am also very stringent on letting a client know exctly what to expect from that horse (both physically and mentally), even if they don't ask. I tell and show them the best way to handle, and work with that particular horse.

All the aspects of finding a suitable horse are interconnected, and can't really be seperated entirely into classifiable sections. But you can definately tell when you find a horse with the proper 'mixture' of these traits.

================================================== =======

These are just things I do, and look for in a youth/kid suitable horse. I hope this insight can be useful for you.

I tried to give you an idea of what to look for from the view of a trainer, and hopefully a guide of things to question an owner of a horse you may be looking at about.

[Blistering Winds]

1200 for 3-4 weeks of training? He better come back doing BACK FLIPS!

The AVERAGE breaking and 30 day riding is around 300-500 a month. That is to get them saddle broke and some riding. For just RIDING, no special training, the average is about that as well.

If you are sending him to a WORLD TRAINER to train, show, and full care him, you might pay up to 800 a month. In all my research, I haven't met ANYONE who is over $1000 for 30 days of training in ANY discipline. If they are out there, they are VERY RARE adn few and far between.

You should find a very well reputable trainer to put more time on your horse for under 500 a month EASY. With GREAT references, great results, and great attitude toward you and your daughter.

This trainer is taking you for a SERIOUS ride because they see GREEn+Green = MORE GREEN for him!!

Yes, it will be a GREAT learning experience for your daughter to learn how to train the horse. Ya'll can go and buy John Lyons Round Pen Reasoning for MUCH cheaper than that and have her do tons of ground work herself that way. But groundwork does not mean Perfect saddle work. THey are TWO different aspects. Ground work HELPS saddle work, but saddle work is just that. You have to fix things IN SADDLE and not just on the ground.

I know you have people there telling you one thing, and TONS of us telling you a different thing, but PLEASE listen to us and not the idiot that wants to take your 1200 dollars for doing NOT MUCH OF ANYTHING. And if he wants to work that horse AWAY From you, That scares me. Last person I heard say that basically BEAT THE SNOT out of the horse until there was nothing left to his spirit. NOT something you want out of a horse.

Please do some more looking around. If your horse is broke, which sounds like it, he is just inexperienced, and just needs time in the saddle. Time to experience things and work through those issues. Which can take up to a YEAR of constant riding.

Actually, one thing I've found useful, is if you know a pen rider, see if they would be willing to put some time on your horse for you. Pen riding I've recently been introduced to seems to put some serious miles and exposure on a horse in a short amount of time. But make sure you know the rider and their abilities NOT to beat the snot out of your horse either.

[mylilpony]

Originally Posted by Dawn

You can not control any horse or pony with sheer strengh or force. They are simply much stronger than the 'average' person to allow that. Yes, if you have a very large person and a very small pony, you can perhaps manhandle it into submission, but that is not the case most of the time. You control a horse by training, not by strength. I've seen the weakest (in a physical sense) people control horses much, much larger than themselves and certainly not pushbutton. I've seen full grown men that can not control a shetland.

"NODS HEAD IN AGREAMENT"!