Discuss Metaboleeze & APF..does anyone use... at the Horse Health forum - Horse Forums. Does anyone use Metaboleeze (by Kentucky Performance Products) or APF - Advanced Protection Formula (by ...
Metaboleeze & APF..does anyone use...
Does anyone use Metaboleeze (by Kentucky Performance Products) or APF - Advanced Protection Formula (by Auburn Labs) & if so, what kind of results have you had by using them? My vet wants me to put Chardonnay on both of these to see if we can get her weight down.
Char's my 18 yr old Morgan mare (14.2 & 1200 lbs , you read it right, 1200 lbs!) who is an extremely easy-keeper. The girl just looks at food & gains weight! She is also insulin impaired (not resistant, though). She had a complete metabolic work-up this summer down at the U of M because she was showing some subtle signs of Cushings but that was ruled out. It's virtually impossible to get weight off of her (other than starvation) & keep it off even with being on a very strict diet. She gets no grain what-so-ever. She gets 1 cup of Safe Choice feed at night that contains her supplements - Cosequin, chromium, cinnamon & Gro-Strong mineral - & a small flake of low quality grass hay. During the day she gets app. 3 flakes of low quality grass hay for a total of app 12 lbs/day or 1% of her body weight. She is turned out during the day (no pasture) & comes in at night. (Feeding instructions per U of M vets.) She has free choice access to salt & water. She is worked on a regular basis, usually everyday, but this horse has more muscles & more stamina than any horse I know. She can go for 5 miles or more at a steady trot & she won't even break into a sweat.
If anyone has any thoughts or suggestions, please feel free to share.
I've been dealing with metabolic cases for several years now....but have not used either of the products you asked about.
I do have some questions that might help.....
Are you feeding a source of magnesium...if so how much/day?
How much chromium are you feeding and what is the product you use?
I am confused about the amount of hay being fed....while it is 1% of her current body weight....what about feeding 1% of the body weight you expect her to be? That would seem more logical.
You also noted that she is not getting any "grain".....but she is getting Safe Choice...which contains grain. While Safe Choice is a "lower" carb feed, it is not a "low" carb feed. Its NSC is still in almost 30% (somewhere in the high 20s). That is more than the recommended amount for a metabolic horse. Additionally, even though you are only feeding a cup....she could be responding to something in it.....the glycemic level would most likely be higher than recommended for a metabolic horse.
Why wasn't an alternative forage product (hay/alfalfa pellets/cubes or beet pulp) recommended? Beet pulp has a glycemic index of 1 compared to a pelleted feed being around 30-40.
Also....have you had your hay tested to determine if there are mineral imbalances and high high the NSC is....it may need soaking to remove carbs.
Besides her Cosequin & free choice salt, on a daily basis Char receives the following:
- 2 oz Grostrong Mineral (vitamin-mineral supplement designed to supplement grass/hay forage) - does contain magnesium but does not specifically state on the label how much. Char had been on this prior to her metabolic work-up.
- 4 mg chromium picolinate (over-the-counter vitamin supplement).
- ~12 lbs low quality hay (has been tested). This is ~1% of her current body weight. (Normally you would feed 1.5% - 2% of body weight to maintain. Vets did not want her being fed less than 1% so as not to put undo stress on her. She has a history of EPM.) As her weight decreases, the amount of hay will also.
- 1 cup SafeChoice feed. NSC levels for SafeChoice fall into the 18% range with around 1450 kcal/lb. (When I stated she was not getting any grain, I meant as in sweet feed, oats, etc. The only reason she is getting any kind of feed is because of her supplements. Tried feeding her beet pulp - she won't eat it . She thinks it's yucky ; even the kind with molasses in it.)
- 6 g (~2 tsp) cinnamon.
All of the above, including the SafeChoice feed, was recommended by the vets at the University of Minnesota Veterinary Hospital after they completed her metabolic work-up; including insulin, glucose, & ACTH levels, dexamethasone suppression testing, glucose tolerance testing & insulin tolerance testing.
The APF (Advanced Protection Formula) & Metaboleeze (vitamin/mineral supplement with chromium picolinate) have been recommended in addition to the above. They are both costly & that is why I am wondering what kind of results other people have had using them. The APF is a liquid & costs $60 per 4 oz bottle ~30 days. The Metaboleeze, which would take the place of the GroStrong mineral & the chromium picolinate OTC, costs $260 for a 25 pound bucket (400 days).
OK....that clarifies some things.....
Everything sounds good except the Safe Choice. With a horse that is this responsive (won't lose weight) it is imperative that there be NO grain...not even a cup of it. She should be open to eating soaked forage cubes or pellets to mix her supps in. The reason I am saying this is because there have been reports of horses that were so responsive to grain that they couldn't even tolerate a small dribbling over the stall wall from their stablemates.
Dr. Kellon generally recommends 5 mg Chromium. I used this very successfully on my severe IR case.
The one factor that I see missing is magnesium. If you have the Ca levels in your hay, then I would make every effort to supplement Mg to attain a ratio of Ca:Mg = 1-2:1. Generally 1.5:1 is recommended, but in more severe cases 1:1 seems to work better. Generally, east of the Missippi it is recommended to start with 15g/day of Mg for a month and then back off to a maintenance level that balances with your hay. We have treated close to 100 cases now with Mg and found that it nearly always brings weight under control.
I would also highly recommend feeding flaxseed. Whole or stabilized pre-ground (www.horsetech.com). It boosts the immune system (you are obviously dealing with a compromised system), supports normal thyroid function, reduces inflammation, and aids in controling/eliminating allergic responses. Horses not on fresh grass have not source of essential omega-3 fatty acids. It is necessary to supplement this vital nutrient to maintain a healthy horse. Recommended amounts are 2-4 oz/day (1/2-1 cup).
I have seen many people report that the APF works well. However, it was after they had already put the horse on Mg and flax that they turned to it as a last resort. As for the Metabolize...IMO, (not having looked at it in a long time) it is basically an unnecessary repeat of what you are already feeding. Generally, I have not found a "premixed" supplement (unless a custom blend) that contained recommended amounts of minerals and other nutrients that are neccessary for optimal treatment of metaboic cases.
Thanks for your in-put Sue! Much appreciated.