[RiddleMeThis]

Originally Posted by JBandRio

Ok, we'll have to agree to disagree since it isn't proven either way But if the rule of Frame is to have the white body "framed" by the dark color, how would it put white on the front of the face? I'm not talking about the cheek, I'm talking about somewhere down the centerline.

Frame doesnt really fight hard for that nothing on the center line, and even sometimes on its own (probably plus or minus splash) crosses the center line, especially on the neck. As for how not sure, but the rule does go that tobiano wants solid head and white legs, and frame wants solid legs and white on the face. I have yet to see a "just" frame overo with no white on his head.

I don't know APHA terribly well, but I'd think they'd register him Tovero. I would suspect Tobi + Splash based on his presentation, and would rely on Frame from a test.

Ill let everyone guess and then let you know where he came from as well.

Although finding credit does go to Paxo

[BPH]

For those of you who do know APHA what would they register this foal as?

im think apha would call him a tovero.

[doublebarr]

This is deeper than the pictures you send in. Dealing with APHA for many years, they don't think up to date with anything.

If Dam was overo and Sire was overo, then you would have to FIGHT them to register him/her as anything other than overo, regardless of pictures and what "current information" tells us. Same for if both parents were Tobis, then they would register him/her as a Tobi.

So, APHA would register Overo if parents were Overo and would be open to registering him as Tovero if you pushed it or if one parent was a solid. They would register him as Tobi. if a parent/s was registerd Tobi and Tovero if one parent was solid/or overo and one was Tobi.

I

[accphotography]

Well I think it is proven as they have tested for frame and they do know frame (by itself) can cause face white ranging from normal to bald supposedly. Are you saying you think if one of those LOUD frame with the perfect outline did NOT have sabino or splash it would nto put any whte on the face or that all the white would be to the sides of the middle like a badger face? I've never seen an example of this that did not clearly have other patterns at play so I can't say, btu I can say this, frame crosses the topline all the time. Over the neck anyway... don't see it cross the back too often.

ACC

[Paxo]

RMT that filly is an EXCELLENT example that things are not always what they seem. I tried to trace back pics on her pedigree once, her grand sire was owned by the folks that have Docs madator? or something to that name. If I recall correctly.

[Haas Horse Farm]

Originally Posted by JBandRio

Wow, very very cool!! Her face and blue eye are absolutely Splash

Just curious how you know that frame is not present as well?

[Haas Horse Farm]

Originally Posted by JBandRio

Ok, we'll have to agree to disagree since it isn't proven either way But if the rule of Frame is to have the white body "framed" by the dark color, how would it put white on the front of the face? I'm not talking about the cheek, I'm talking about somewhere down the centerline.

I know several tested frames that have white across the top of the back... so this comment is confusing... Also solid horses are frame so there is no white to frame at all. Sorry I think you are forgetting one big point when dealing with paint and pinto patterns... those are rules that are often broken and they are just a guide not a must. Much like paw prints are a sign of Tobiano but not all tobianos have them and some with them are NOT homozygous for tobiano... but that does not mean that we throw the paw prints out... as an indicator of homozygous tobiano... it just means that if the parents are correct for it ... there is one more reason to test.

There are no absolutes with spotting colors...

[RiddleMeThis]

Originally Posted by Paxo

RMT that filly is an EXCELLENT example that things are not always what they seem. I tried to trace back pics on her pedigree once, her grand sire was owned by the folks that have Docs madator? or something to that name. If I recall correctly.

I thought she was sooo cool looking when I was reading the thread you had over there. Did you have any luck finding out if mom was tested for anything? Or baby for that matter?

[doublebarr]

Well, here is mom:
http://www.cedarrockfarms.com/BJ.html


And here's Dad:
http://www.talkoftheparty.net/Party.html


So, she's registered Overo and he's AQHA - means the baby is NOT Tobiano, but Splash + Overo, so if APHA registered him Overo, they would be correct.

ETA: and it would deffinately show a foal with the frame gene WOULD allow white to cross over when you include splash.

[RiddleMeThis]

IF the foal is frame. I am not completely convinced that foal is frame plus splash and not just splash plus sabino. Im wondering if mom is frame and not just sabino.