Looking for validation or a reality check. Kinda long.

doublebarr · 03-05-2008, 03:44 PM

finally - talk to some paint breeders. See if you can "friend intern" at their foaling barns. You said you would wait at least a year so that is a good time to gather all the information you can from these sources.

I didn't see a pedigree on your mare, but along with the LWO genetic issue, you might need to test for HYPP (if she's impressive lineage as MANY paint horses are) and HERDA if she's Poco Bueno lineage. These are serious genetic issues that any breeder SHOULD no MUST be informed of before they breed.

You mentioned your vet, but unfortunately, unless they are specifically equine vets with a history in the breed of your choice, they often know or understand less than the average layman about genetic issues affecting different breeds. So, you need to look for information yourself, before stepping off into that pond, LOL. Reproductive Equine specific vets are usually great at reproductive issues, but the genetic issues are another story. Gene's affect more than the sex and color of the horse, they go directly to the health of the horse. There are many other "less common" genetic issues in the stock breeds and there is LOTS of information out there about them. Just a little searching of the web provides a lot of good information. Don't totally rely on the "breed clubs" as they often "overlook" issues within their breeds (

). Go to breeders (not just one, but many different ones) and visit with them. Get a very well rounded sample of people and you will likely learn a vast ammount.

But, don't stop at taking their word for it, take the knowledge they give you and research more. I know breeders that think nothing of breeding FOR HYPP!!!! just to name one. And the paints are notorious for not stepping up and acknowledging the problem. They don't require testing for this genetic defect that can not only kill the horse, but hurt the owner physically.

Learn, Learn, and Learn more. Then, if you still want to breed after knowing everything, well, then you are making an informed decision. Rather than an emotional only one.

Finallyownhorse · 03-05-2008, 05:28 PM

Quote:

And you say you cannot have an adult horse now? How can you have a baby that will eventually be an adult horse? I don't get it?

What's not to get? Its not a matter of I can not "have" another horse, I don't "need" another adult horse. To buy an adult for the sole purpose of having a baby by it, seems wrong to me. So I get the baby, then what? Just ditch the mother? I guess I don't work that way. I think I covered this in a different part of the thread on how that would be different if my youngest son decides to get into riding.

I would like a baby to watch grow and participate in its upbringing. I actually hope it would grow into adulthood.

Quote:

what if the baby hits the ground dumb and with a BAD temperment? One never knows what may be lurking behind all those genes..... comes out lame, never to be able to run, let alone be ridden........must consider the "bad" part of breeding and the good....

I guess I don't know what I have said that makes you think I would just give up on the baby if it isn't right. I have never skimped on vet care, and would address any and all issues the baby may have. I already own one dumb horse.

So I can't see dumping a baby because of that. Hopefully a bad temperment could be delt with either training or surgical (gelding or female sterilizing)

IF we go through with this, I am prepared to take the good and the bad.

Finallyownhorse · 03-05-2008, 05:38 PM

Thank you Doublebarr for the great ideas. I will talk to our neighbor up the road about helping with the foaling this year. I never thought of that.

Quote:

I know breeders that think nothing of breeding FOR HYPP

I find that very scary.

Thankfully our vet is very knowledgable on breeding horses. Arabian horses though. He has some pretty impressive stock. I have seen them in magazines even. Yes, I impress easy.

Blistering Winds · 03-06-2008, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by finallyownhorse

What's not to get? Its not a matter of I can not "have" another horse, I don't "need" another adult horse. To buy an adult for the sole purpose of having a baby by it, seems wrong to me. So I get the baby, then what? Just ditch the mother? I guess I don't work that way. I think I covered this in a different part of the thread on how that would be different if my youngest son decides to get into riding.

I would like a baby to watch grow and participate in its upbringing. I actually hope it would grow into adulthood.

I guess I don't know what I have said that makes you think I would just give up on the baby if it isn't right. I have never skimped on vet care, and would address any and all issues the baby may have. I already own one dumb horse.

So I can't see dumping a baby because of that. Hopefully a bad temperment could be delt with either training or surgical (gelding or female sterilizing)

IF we go through with this, I am prepared to take the good and the bad.

Please don't take me wrong. I've gotten some "interesting" responses in the past when I ask those questions.

gallop4life · 03-06-2008, 06:01 PM

http://horsetopia.horse-for-sale.org...fieds/ad270903

Here is just one of the mares that are for sale and in foal...^^

http://equisearch.equine.com/horses/...48&max_age=180
here are some more...there are sooo many horses out there in foal....^^

Just be sure to think it over....

Finallyownhorse · 03-06-2008, 07:53 PM

I want to thank gallop4life, for the links to mares in foal that are for sale. Nothing below is related to you personally, I just have some observations and questions.

I noticed most are broodmares. They state what kinds of babies they throw, however, none of the ads stated anything about the HYPP or the LWO I was warned about on here.

Maybe they just don't include that info in the ad?

Since they are broodmares and not broke to ride, how do they know the temperment and trainability/intelligence of the mom?

I also noticed they have "bloodlines" listed, but not the dad's accomplishments. Is that also just because there isn't room in the ad? Or do they count on the stud's past ancestor's achievements?

I am famous for putting the cart before the horse. So I can't help but think someone is going to answer on here that bred mares are not tested for disease, they have no idea of the mothers qualities past her foaling history, and that the stud was used because of his ancestors. Or because he is available.

If that is the case, I guess I am going to sound like both a snob and a hypocrite.

But I don't think those people should have bred those mares they have listed for sale.

I do like the ad of this mare:

http://www.horseville.com/php/view.php?id=136271

However, we don't know if my youngest will get into riding this year. It's too cold out! No, this mare wouldn't be for him, but we would need 4 riding horses.

Haas Horse Farm · 03-06-2008, 10:23 PM

Those mares would not be tested for HYPP or LWO because they are Impressive bred and are not paint mares.

Also you really need to figure out exactly what you are wanting in a mare... What breeding, color, etc. There are a ton of horses for sale right now. I have read this whole thread and IMHO you are not sure what you want... Until you are sure it is hard to suggest anything.

I could comment a bit more but I am afraid you would just think it was all negative so it is better left unsaid... I just find it almost ironically humorous in your choice in the gray mare... given your comments about the broodmares suggested. I will let you ponder that for a bit and then if you still cannot figure out why I find it funny I will explain.

I am honestly not laughing at you... it is just what time and education will teach you.

Appylvr · 03-06-2008, 11:33 PM

I was going to post a link to one of my favorite Paint breeder sites, I know they were selling a few quality bred mares last year and probably still are, but I had another thought.

You mentioned that you really don't need another adult horse to take care of at this point. Also if you did breed your mare she wouldn't be a riding horse for a few months of her pregnancy and another few after she foaled so you would loose her use...

And I had a thought pop into my head!

What if you approached your neighbor that breeds or in fact anyone near you that breeds horses you like and talk to them about buying a foal before it's born? Explain to them that you want the experience of having your own foal, but you really don't have experience breeding. You wouldn't have any decision on what you were going to get (color, colt, filly, etc) - just like if you bred your own mare. And if something went wrong with the foaling and it didn't make it, I'm sure you wouldn't have to pay. So that's a big bonus (if you bred your own mare you wouldn't have that guarantee)

If you think of it, you get the best of both worlds. You don't have to pay the vet bills or feed bills of a pregnant mare that you can't use for months.

I'm sure the breeder would be fine with you visiting mommy and loving on her - grooming and petting, so you can have an "attachment" to her (just like if it was your own horse).

What brought this up... a friend of mine is a breeder and I remember he let a woman do that, he even let her take the mare home while she was pregnant. (Hey, he didn't have to pay her feed bills while she was gone, so he was happy) and the woman got the experience of having her own baby. Once the foal was old enough, she weaned it and gave the mare back to him.

Haas Horse Farm · 03-06-2008, 11:53 PM

What you are stating is actually a breeding lease. :-) Very common... you get the mare in foal... you keep the foal and the mare goes home...

Buying in utero... you do not get the mare... you get the foal after it is weaned. :-)

RiddleMeThis · 03-07-2008, 12:13 AM

Make sure you can honestly afford to breed her. The stud fee is only a small small part of all the fees associated with breeding. Here is a very detailed list of what it costs. Many people who saw this at first said that it was much much lower than they actaully pay and it doesnt even include emergency expenses if something were to go wrong.

http://www.spindletopfarm.net/breedingcosts.htm

Also why I agree it is your decision in the end I would really think about how easily will the foal sell. I know you said you would keep him for life, but honestly $h!t happens. You may not be able to take care of him for all if his life. If you breed an unmarketable cross and something bad hits your family finacially you will have a very very hard time selling him and then what happens?

03-06-2008, 06:01 PM	#25
gallop4life Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Ft.Myers Florida Posts: 326 Images: 29	So many horses..... http://horsetopia.horse-for-sale.org...fieds/ad270903 Here is just one of the mares that are for sale and in foal...^^ http://equisearch.equine.com/horses/...48&max_age=180 here are some more...there are sooo many horses out there in foal....^^ Just be sure to think it over....

03-06-2008, 11:33 PM	#28
Appylvr Senior Member+ Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: California Posts: 6,984 Images: 307	I was going to post a link to one of my favorite Paint breeder sites, I know they were selling a few quality bred mares last year and probably still are, but I had another thought. You mentioned that you really don't need another adult horse to take care of at this point. Also if you did breed your mare she wouldn't be a riding horse for a few months of her pregnancy and another few after she foaled so you would loose her use... And I had a thought pop into my head! What if you approached your neighbor that breeds or in fact anyone near you that breeds horses you like and talk to them about buying a foal before it's born? Explain to them that you want the experience of having your own foal, but you really don't have experience breeding. You wouldn't have any decision on what you were going to get (color, colt, filly, etc) - just like if you bred your own mare. And if something went wrong with the foaling and it didn't make it, I'm sure you wouldn't have to pay. So that's a big bonus (if you bred your own mare you wouldn't have that guarantee) If you think of it, you get the best of both worlds. You don't have to pay the vet bills or feed bills of a pregnant mare that you can't use for months. I'm sure the breeder would be fine with you visiting mommy and loving on her - grooming and petting, so you can have an "attachment" to her (just like if it was your own horse). What brought this up... a friend of mine is a breeder and I remember he let a woman do that, he even let her take the mare home while she was pregnant. (Hey, he didn't have to pay her feed bills while she was gone, so he was happy) and the woman got the experience of having her own baby. Once the foal was old enough, she weaned it and gave the mare back to him. __________________ ~Tonya~ Teak~Coco~Baylee~Dolly~Rosie~Shilo~Jazzy A solitary ride through the bush is more beneficial than six months with the best psychiatrist

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03-05-2008, 03:44 PM	#21
doublebarr Senior Member+ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Missouri Posts: 7,275 Images: 549	finally - talk to some paint breeders. See if you can "friend intern" at their foaling barns. You said you would wait at least a year so that is a good time to gather all the information you can from these sources. I didn't see a pedigree on your mare, but along with the LWO genetic issue, you might need to test for HYPP (if she's impressive lineage as MANY paint horses are) and HERDA if she's Poco Bueno lineage. These are serious genetic issues that any breeder SHOULD no MUST be informed of before they breed. You mentioned your vet, but unfortunately, unless they are specifically equine vets with a history in the breed of your choice, they often know or understand less than the average layman about genetic issues affecting different breeds. So, you need to look for information yourself, before stepping off into that pond, LOL. Reproductive Equine specific vets are usually great at reproductive issues, but the genetic issues are another story. Gene's affect more than the sex and color of the horse, they go directly to the health of the horse. There are many other "less common" genetic issues in the stock breeds and there is LOTS of information out there about them. Just a little searching of the web provides a lot of good information. Don't totally rely on the "breed clubs" as they often "overlook" issues within their breeds ( ). Go to breeders (not just one, but many different ones) and visit with them. Get a very well rounded sample of people and you will likely learn a vast ammount. But, don't stop at taking their word for it, take the knowledge they give you and research more. I know breeders that think nothing of breeding FOR HYPP!!!! just to name one. And the paints are notorious for not stepping up and acknowledging the problem. They don't require testing for this genetic defect that can not only kill the horse, but hurt the owner physically. Learn, Learn, and Learn more. Then, if you still want to breed after knowing everything, well, then you are making an informed decision. Rather than an emotional only one.

03-06-2008, 07:53 PM	#26
Finallyownhorse Senior Member+ Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Southeastern South Dakota Posts: 1,873 Images: 161	I want to thank gallop4life, for the links to mares in foal that are for sale. Nothing below is related to you personally, I just have some observations and questions. I noticed most are broodmares. They state what kinds of babies they throw, however, none of the ads stated anything about the HYPP or the LWO I was warned about on here. Maybe they just don't include that info in the ad? Since they are broodmares and not broke to ride, how do they know the temperment and trainability/intelligence of the mom? I also noticed they have "bloodlines" listed, but not the dad's accomplishments. Is that also just because there isn't room in the ad? Or do they count on the stud's past ancestor's achievements? I am famous for putting the cart before the horse. So I can't help but think someone is going to answer on here that bred mares are not tested for disease, they have no idea of the mothers qualities past her foaling history, and that the stud was used because of his ancestors. Or because he is available. If that is the case, I guess I am going to sound like both a snob and a hypocrite. But I don't think those people should have bred those mares they have listed for sale. I do like the ad of this mare: http://www.horseville.com/php/view.php?id=136271 However, we don't know if my youngest will get into riding this year. It's too cold out! No, this mare wouldn't be for him, but we would need 4 riding horses.

03-07-2008, 12:13 AM	#30
RiddleMeThis Senior Member+ Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,549	Make sure you can honestly afford to breed her. The stud fee is only a small small part of all the fees associated with breeding. Here is a very detailed list of what it costs. Many people who saw this at first said that it was much much lower than they actaully pay and it doesnt even include emergency expenses if something were to go wrong. http://www.spindletopfarm.net/breedingcosts.htm Also why I agree it is your decision in the end I would really think about how easily will the foal sell. I know you said you would keep him for life, but honestly $h!t happens. You may not be able to take care of him for all if his life. If you breed an unmarketable cross and something bad hits your family finacially you will have a very very hard time selling him and then what happens?