[Little Red Dun]

I do not think anyone was disagreeing with you. I think most were simply saying line-breeding/inbreeding has its place in the breeding world. It is necessary to provide strong genetics for desirable traits. All breeds are inbred to some degree, some where.

I personally do not see a problem with careful line-breeding/inbreeding if only the best individuals are used and the breeding program has a very strong culling practices. And if the desired cross does not produce something better than the parents by the second try, they stop crossing those two.

I have always been told the "ideal" breeding program consists of three or four lines that are properly inbred/line-bred that are then carefully crossed to produce better animals with the best traits of the lines. This both allows the strong genes and desired traits to be passed on, but maintains genetic diversity.

Oh, and as for the mustangs, there are many cases when a young stallion returns to his birth herd and steals a mare from his father, which might be his aunt, cousin, half-sister, or even full sister. Mustangs are kept on limited HMAs and since they have no way to leave, inbreeding can and does happen. The only difference is that is Mother Nature, not Man culling out the weaknesses.

[wyldterv]

Originally Posted by Bodi

"closebreeding" can also be done responsibly by people who know what their doing. It has been done numerous times by many different well known breeders of different breeds. Just to clarify I'm putting this out to everyone. It can be just as effective a tool to breeding when in the right hands.

Exactly... The true facts are this... IRRESPONSIBLE, UNEDUCATED people should not breed in ANY fashion PERIOD because they will not have the wherewithall, knowledge, nor desire to try to actually IMPROVE on what they're starting out with...

Garbage in = garbage out 99% of the time. I have been an extremely successful dog breeder for many years now. I actually ONLY outcross when I can find another very well bred line that compliments my own line I have built off of which started out with 4 main different lines. I go in , go in and then on RARE occassion, go in agian, or more often, go out. BUT when I go out, I look for a line that has been produced in a similar manner as mine so that I know it is a line strong for particular traits I am wanting to introduce into my pedigree.

I have not had (knocks on wood) an issue with health being poor, auto-immune disease cropping up, and most definately not having an issue with poor temperamented animals... BUT that is because I cull very judiciously in my program... NEVER allowing merely good enough to be bred on, ONLY those dogs that I feel are EXCELLENT will get an opportunity to produce and only those that pass all of their health tests and definately only those with very solid, outgoing temperaments that are suitable to my breed.

If I was a lazy, uncaring, uneducated, undedicated breeder I could JUST as easily be creating disaster after disaster because I'd not be doing my homework first. BUT I could create just as much of a chance of a disaster breeding outcross to outcross if I don't do my homework, etc.

Inbreeding is neither evil nor the end all be all. It is a VERY powerful breeding tool and when done properly can create incredible things.. when done in an uneducated manner with out care for health and temperament and type and conformation, it can lock in all the highly undesirable traits a person would normally NOT want in a get.

[Little Red Dun]

Originally Posted by wyldterv

Exactly... The true facts are this... IRRESPONSIBLE, UNEDUCATED people should not breed in ANY fashion PERIOD because they will not have the wherewithall, knowledge, nor desire to try to actually IMPROVE on what they're starting out with...

Garbage in = garbage out 99% of the time. I have been an extremely successful dog breeder for many years now. I actually ONLY outcross when I can find another very well bred line that compliments my own line I have built off of which started out with 4 main different lines. I go in , go in and then on RARE occassion, go in agian, or more often, go out. BUT when I go out, I look for a line that has been produced in a similar manner as mine so that I know it is a line strong for particular traits I am wanting to introduce into my pedigree.

I have not had (knocks on wood) an issue with health being poor, auto-immune disease cropping up, and most definately not having an issue with poor temperamented animals... BUT that is because I cull very judiciously in my program... NEVER allowing merely good enough to be bred on, ONLY those dogs that I feel are EXCELLENT will get an opportunity to produce and only those that pass all of their health tests and definately only those with very solid, outgoing temperaments that are suitable to my breed.

If I was a lazy, uncaring, uneducated, undedicated breeder I could JUST as easily be creating disaster after disaster because I'd not be doing my homework first. BUT I could create just as much of a chance of a disaster breeding outcross to outcross if I don't do my homework, etc.

Inbreeding is neither evil nor the end all be all. It is a VERY powerful breeding tool and when done properly can create incredible things.. when done in an uneducated manner with out care for health and temperament and type and conformation, it can lock in all the highly undesirable traits a person would normally NOT want in a get.

Excellent post and exactly what I was trying to say. Wyldterv just said it a lot better!

[ryu2832]

Can someone explain to me why linebreeding/inbreeding is not good for genetic diversity, or if you prefer, how constantly outcrossing preserves genetic diversity?

[ryu2832]

Originally Posted by OzCowgirl;2378301
[URL="http://www.netpets.com/dogs/reference/genetics/inbreeda.html"

Inbreeding, Linebreeding and Crossbreeding[/url]

Author anonymous. There's a number of technical problems with their terms, defintions, and resulting arguments. It reads like a student/undergrad project paper to me.

I'm not really for or against Inbreeding. Half of my breeding program is centered on line breeding (Trakehner), the other half is pure performance crosses(Irish Sport). I think it is a tool, and like any tool if it is misused you're likely to get an unexpected/unwanted result.

[Bratmare]

Originally Posted by Lady barth

I heard a saying once, it may have been here actually that LINEBREEDING means everything turned out good, and INBREEDING means it didnt

LMAO Stupid message being too short.