[blue eyes]

I have two gray performance bred QH mares I am hoping to bred. A friend told me not to bred to a gray or a roan. Is this true and if so can someone explain lethal white. Thanks

[shell]

Lethal white is a homozygous overo gene. Nothing to do with gray or roan, unless you have a gray OVERO or a roan OVERO and breed to another OVERO or to a LWO carrier. If your mares are solid, there should be no problem at all.

[JBandRio]

Your friend is very confused

As shell said, gray and roan have absolutely nothing to do with Lethal White. However, gray can cover up the presence of the Frame Overo pattern which is synonymous with LWO. Roan could as well, but is very unlikely to. HOWEVER, Frame Overo does not have to be visible at all on a non-gray or roan horse. A horse can be absolutely solid, not a speck of white, and be a Frame (positive for LWO).

So, unless you know 100% for sure that at least one parent of each pair is negative for LWO, it would be in your best interest to at least test your mares. If either is positive, then you'd best be sure the stallion is negative, because if both are positive, you have a 25% chance with each breeding of producing a Lethal foal.

[Bluwind_Acres]

yes she is absolutely correct. there is only Lethal white in OVERO paints. being your horses are QHs they wouldnt have it but however greys do have a higher likeley hood then other colors to get malinomas (small tumors). however that in its self is fairly rare it seems to me. but thats what the vet said. and the malinomas dont seem dangerous cause we had an older mare with one in her ear for several years before we asked the vet and she just gave her some sleepy juice and cut it out and hasnt been back sence. another thing is that breeding 2 greys makes the likeley hood of the foal being a grey 75% and maybe 25% whatever color said horse's base coats are (the color they were born). like my grey was born sorrel so if he was bred to a sorrel he'd either throw a sorrel or grey. hope I helped.



BLUWIND

[Haas Horse Farm]

Originally Posted by Bluwind_Acres

yes she is absolutely correct. there is only Lethal white in OVERO paints. being your horses are QHs they wouldnt have it ...

Sorry this is totally wrong... remember how many QH are from paint backgrounds... Many BS paints are lethal... you really have no way to know without testing or knowing the background of the horse... breed or lack of white is never a reason to believe it will not happen. Remember that in 1940 many paints, appys, arabs, percherons and other breeds were given QH papers because it was a type breed back then.

You are correct that in theory breeding QH to QH should be safe but that is just not 100% true. The only way to be 100% true is have one parent tested negative for LWO.

[Acme Acres]

Originally Posted by Bluwind_Acres

yes she is absolutely correct. there is only Lethal white in OVERO paints. being your horses are QHs they wouldnt have it but however greys do have a higher likeley hood then other colors to get malinomas (small tumors). however that in its self is fairly rare it seems to me. but thats what the vet said. and the malinomas dont seem dangerous cause we had an older mare with one in her ear for several years before we asked the vet and she just gave her some sleepy juice and cut it out and hasnt been back sence. another thing is that breeding 2 greys makes the likeley hood of the foal being a grey 75% and maybe 25% whatever color said horse's base coats are (the color they were born). like my grey was born sorrel so if he was bred to a sorrel he'd either throw a sorrel or grey. hope I helped.



BLUWIND

Bluwind, QH CAN carry the lethal gene, regardless of what they look like.

[Simply Savvy]

Originally Posted by blue eyes

I have two gray performance bred QH mares I am hoping to bred. A friend told me not to bred to a gray or a roan. Is this true and if so can someone explain lethal white. Thanks

I see no reason why you could not breed a gray and a roan. There is no genetic reason I have ever heard of.

Gray, Roans, Sabinos, etc. do not results in Lethal Whites. Lethal Whites are only born when two Frame Overos (those carrying the LWO gene) are bred together. It is always a good idea to test for LWO in any horse you're planning to breed if there is even a chance the breed carries that gene.

Here is a good article from the APHA about Lethal Whites: http://www.apha.com/breed/lethalwhites03.html

[Kicks]

Originally Posted by Bluwind_Acres

yes she is absolutely correct. there is only Lethal white in OVERO paints. being your horses are QHs they wouldnt have it



BLUWIND

Your 'friend' is wrong - do a little research on-line and you will find that - if you don't want to 'listen' to Acme Acres and/or Haas Horse Farm! They both know far more than I do on this subject but they are 'right on' - based on everything documented/scientific that I've been able to find. LWO even shows up (though it is rare and usually kept "hush-hush") in ApHC horses with heavy AQHA background.

[Bluwind_Acres]

Originally Posted by JBandRio

Your friend is very confused

As shell said, gray and roan have absolutely nothing to do with Lethal White. However, gray can cover up the presence of the Frame Overo pattern which is synonymous with LWO. Roan could as well, but is very unlikely to. HOWEVER, Frame Overo does not have to be visible at all on a non-gray or roan horse. A horse can be absolutely solid, not a speck of white, and be a Frame (positive for LWO).

So, unless you know 100% for sure that at least one parent of each pair is negative for LWO, it would be in your best interest to at least test your mares. If either is positive, then you'd best be sure the stallion is negative, because if both are positive, you have a 25% chance with each breeding of producing a Lethal foal.

I was agreeing with JBandRio here. and you both said just about the SAME thing. cause if AQHAs cant carry the overo gene then why on gods green earth are there QHs registered with APHA?!? Im young and stupid but not THAT dumb or stupid. *sigh* I Did however mis type it was sposed to be:

there is only Lethal white in OVERO paints. if your horses are QHs they shouldnt have it ...
MEANING they are QHs from non crop out QH lines...they shouldnt have it. there are ALWAYS freak stories but going on solid based fact and on not so RARE cases the horse shouldnt be positive for LWO the chances would be slim to none. if it were that said horses from non paint lines (regular AQHA registered horses) have the LWO why in earth are the BYBs having so much success?!?! are all the good foals leathal whites! OMG I had no Idea! <insert sarcasum> I'd like to know how many people TEST thier NORMAL QH for LETHAL WHITE (im not saying to breed to a paint but to another QH) before breeding?!? this excludes paint breeders because they should be testing for it. and yet with all the BYB breeding 'spotted' horses how do they manage to get healthy non lethal whites out of thier horses...it must be a miracal that every 4th foal isnt dead it would make for good birth control for them. *sigh* ok my rant is over. im sorry im not as word perfect acctually im surprised that no one corrected me on my genetics figuring cause we all know people are picky and will correct the tinest detail that may or may not be correct just because there were afew RARE cases.like maybe a silver dapple colt out of a said NON silver dapple mare but im just pulling things out of the air. ok now im done. and original poster....survey says: DONT LISTEN TO BLUWIND AT ANY COST.




THANKS

BLUWIND

BLUWIND

[JBandRio]

You are saying it incorrectly again. The term 'crop out" is from 2 QH parents, who might have NO registered Paint blood, producing a foal with "too much" white. This is either from Frame, or Sabino, and the only way to know is to test. And that means that gentically , at least one of those parents IS an Overo, just one that does not present as such.

QH breeders don't tend to test their horses because, like you, they think that because they are not Paints that they can't have Frame. Heck, people with BSPs don't test because they think if the horse is solid, he can't be Frame.

I would bet there are LOT more Lethal foals born than you seem to think. It is not a matter of every 4th foal born of the same 2 Frame parents being Lethal - it is a 25% chance with each breeding. If you take sets of 2 known Frame horses and breed them for 100 foals, the odds will start stacking up and about 25 of those will be Lethal. That's how it works.