[DNoble]

I bought a horse back in June of 07. He was only halter broke when I bought him and appx. 1 to 1 1/2 years old. I began training him immediatly and to my amazement he did not once buck and he barely reared up. Even when he did it was really only half way up.

The only trouble I've actually had with him, other than his unwillingness to get caught to saddle up, is that he lays down. He's done it maybe 5 times, most being if he got spooked but one time it was for no reason at all.

Nothing is wrong with him medically and myself, my girlfriend and my grandpa, who has raised and trained horses for 30 years have never had a horse do this to us.

Anyone have any reasons why he would do this and suggestions on how to stop it?

[AllAroundRdr]

Does he only exhibit this behavior under saddle or is it also without being tacked up? -- there's a chance ill-properly fitting tack is to blame. Is it laying down or flipping over? What do you do when this behavior occurs?

[DNoble]

It's happened under both circumstances, both tack on and off.

He only lays down on his side, never has flipped over like he is rolling in the mud. He usually lays there for a minute or so. We usually attempt to pull him up by his halter, gently of course, at first. If he doesn't get up we let him lay for a minute and get calmed down.

Usually after a minute of him laying there he gets back up, there has been once only where we've had to had one person pulling on his halter and another rolling him over. After we get his legs under him he usually stands up.

I'd just like to remind everyone the he does not do this frequently and hasn't done it in a bit. He has however done this once while I was riding him and I thought he was getting ready to buck so I held on and before I could realize what was actually happening my leg was already under him. :P

[AllAroundRdr]

There can be SO many issues causing this...it's almost limitless, but I would involve a knowledgeable person starting with a vet. Your vet can very easily rule out quite a few things at one call-out. That doesn't mean the root of the issue can be 'solved' in one day, but it's best to rule certain things out such as improperly fitting tack which can contribute to behavioral issues, also nuerological issues is something to consider and rule out. Once the horse has been given a clean bill of health and you've determined it has nothing to do with pain from tack or anything else, then I believe becomes a training issue.

If the horse was purchased in June of 2007 and was 1-1.5 years old, that now, as of January 2008 puts him at 1 year, 7 months to just a couple months over 2 years old (pending I can add correctly at this hour) -- training error could very well be the root of the problem, in which case the animal is not at all to blame. Regardless of what may be causing the confusion and miscommunication between yourself and the horse (pending this is a training error) laying down while being worked/handled isn't tolerable in any situation and is dangerous. It's something you do not want turning into a habit of any sort. I can say, my own opinion, a gentle "tug" and "coaxing" of any of my horses wouldn't take place -- as there's no 'punishment' and nothing he'll remember as to why he SHOULDN'T drop to the ground. As stated MANY times, if health is cleared and it's training, and if it were my horse a) there'd be a firm *suggestion* of the horse regaining an upright position with all 4 legs on the ground, and then he'd work, and work, and work, and work, and work....This still doesn't solve a possible communication error involving your training methods which is where a trainer helping you would be suggested, but at least repercussions for poor behavior would be addressed.

[DNoble]

Ok, well I didn't want to say it before because of the chance some people might not agree with my punishment for the horse. However if he lays down and does not get up after one attempt then I kick him in the chest (not hard enough to do any damage at all), which is the same thing I do if any of my horses rear up or buck. I do however never hit him in his face, which is because every single person I've ever talked to says it is a horrible idea.

After which he does get a tough and long work out. Even when he was not saddle and bit broke he was ran around the pasture and yard for quite some time or even ponied to another horse for awhile.

The vet has said that he has nothing obviously wrong with his health so that limits your suggestions to neurological or the trainer himself, me, which could entirely be possible since this is the first horse I've broken by myself. I have been taking helpful advice from horse veterans and the, while limited to alot of you, experience I've had training horses.

If it is in fact the training and not a mental problem how do you suggest fixing him of this problem, other than what I have done. Which has seemed to work as he hasn't done it for a while, which could be attributed to the fact that it's winter and I rarely ride during the winter.

[Xiphias]

Just how old it this horse now? He sound awful young for the kind of work you are explaining....Cathy

[DNoble]

He is to my best guess just over 2.

Don't be mistaken by my explanations of things, it is 2:30 AM so my words may be different than what I mean.

He has never been on any long rides, the longest ride was about 30 minutes long. He isn't, nor will be trained for anything other than western pleasure.

His knee joints are fully grown and the vet, along with 2 other veteran horse riders have told us he is plenty capable of being rode for longer periods of time.

[Xiphias]

I think I saw that he was not gelded yet? He may be just playing with you, trying to get out of work...if it were my horse pulling that shannigans, I would take a dressage whip, and when he goes down, give him a quick tap on the rump, and tell him "NO!" a few times of that, he might get the idea, that it's not fun to lay down when it's time to work....Cathy

eta...I am not advocating beating the horse, but he has to learn that it's wrong to lay down....

[DNoble]

Thank you for the help, while I've used a whip on a horse once I will remember that if he pulls his stunt again to get it out and see what he thinks of it.

EDIT: You are correct that he is not gelded yet. One testicle has not yet dropped and I'm in no hurry to geld him as he is a very friendly horse, even to the other horses he is with.

[buck1173]

Originally Posted by DNoble

He's done it maybe 5 times, most being if he got spooked but one time it was for no reason at all.

Originally Posted by DNoble

However if he lays down and does not get up after one attempt then I kick him in the chest (not hard enough to do any damage at all), which is the same thing I do if any of my horses rear up or buck. I do however never hit him in his face, which is because every single person I've ever talked to says it is a horrible idea.

hitting horses in the face is a horrible idea.

I'm not a tree hugger (ok, maybe a little bit ) but I can be rather firm with horses, and I have nothing against a well timed kick, slap or smack... however, if this were my horse, and I noticed that his laying down was in response to having been spooked, I might not kick him for it, especially since he's not doing something that will pose harm to anyone or himself... I might try to figure out what spooked him so darn bad.

Then again, you said he's really not doing it any longer, so maybe the kick worked.

I agree with AllRound, there could be a zillion reasons from physical, to neurological to mental... perhaps he has an ear infection? abscessed tooth? irritable bowel syndrome? Perhaps as a foal, he and his dam encountered a scary situation (predator) and she did something odd, like tucked him in the grass like a deer would...

I'm just suggesting instead of thinking of it as a 'stunt' – since he mostly does it when he's scared – try to think another way about it as that might help you to get to the root of the problem faster.

odd problem, good luck!