Last straw with a problem horse...

Ceilidh · 11-07-2008, 08:08 AM

I agree with previous posters. If it is a nasty tempered mare she is no broodmare prospect. Solving the problems of a problem horse is a long term, high intensity proposition and requires understanding why this horse is behaving thus. If pain might be an issue, that must be addressed. If it is purely and simply that she has not been worked in years, then she must be retrained.

You mentioned that the mare had a worried and frightened look in her eye - if it is an abuse case, good luck! If she was abused she most likely has lost all faith and trust in humans and without that what else can a horse do but fight back? If this is the case, then before one can even attempt to ride her, rapport must be built and trust reestablished. Once she trusts a person that person must start to retrain her and see what she can do. If she had and trust I would suggest trying her in harness, but a worried and fearful look would indicate that she is not ready.

Sounds like a pasture ornament right now.

Rescues are long term (sometimes permanent) projects. My rescue mare is one that I neither would sell nor can sell in the future (signed a contract promising to keep her forever) and I have no idea whether she was ever saddle broke.

denraydar · 11-07-2008, 09:50 AM

Has she tried to place the animal with an equine rescue? Has she tried to place the horse with animal control or surrender to local law enforcement? Your friend took the responsibility of a problem horse with the idea to make some money by fixing then selling it right? Well sometimes it is more than just training that is needed to fix a problem horse.

If the horse has been removed from a neglectful or abusive situation it will likely take several months of working with it on the ground and in proper daily handling towards rehabilitative training for trauma.

If the horse is cinchy and bucks it could have any number of medical problems such as a gastric ulcer or any type of injury sustained in the past that is now creating problems due to the horse being put back to work.

Has she considered contacting the previous owner to see if she would take the horse?

Taking a horse out of a bad place and turning it into a useful, happy, healthy companion that is marketable is rarely an easy task, it is a luck of the draw thing. In that sort of endeavor you operate at risk. The main risk is that you will fail to recondition the horse, if that happens enough times you will begin to get a poor reputation in the area.
It is important that when you enter into this type of thing you do so with proper intent, if the intent is to do it for the horse and for yourself and you have the available funds to make it work (medical care, training, specialized feed if necessary) then it is fine. But if you enter into something solely with the intent to make a buck and you do not have adequate funds to ensure a good outcome then you have made a serious error in judgement.

Equine Rescues and Animal Control are places that are well equipped to handle this sort of thing. Unfortunatly there are so many unwanted horses with issues, (usually created by their owners treatment of them) that they are becoming too filled up with other peoples problem horses.

sarahhowen · 11-07-2008, 10:04 AM

Quite often when dealing with a rescue horse you have to heal the mind as well as the body and this can take an awlful long time.........if it ever happens.

It does sound to me like the mare is still worth working with, yes she has issues and these will not be easy issues to fix, but given time she could come right.

I think the most important thing at the moment is to get more background on this mare, once you understand what has happened to her then its easier to try and fix.

Has the current trainer given up on this mare after he has only been on it a handful of times? if so then he is not the right man (or woman) for the job.

CJ · 11-07-2008, 10:16 AM

A 10 yr old horse that h as been loafing for a couple years seems to me like it might be effectively back to 'green'. It is going to take a good, qualified trainer to retrieve, remind, and polish what she knows. She might be better at bad habits that get her out of work than engaging what she used to be good at. Thats assuming she has no physical or mental problems. Your friend may be well intentioned but out of her league, but the horse may not need to be shot, just professionally polished. If she can be polished, she'll have a better chances of going somewhere than just as as breeder.

coppers_girl · 11-07-2008, 10:17 AM

where is she located?

Appysrule · 11-07-2008, 10:49 AM

I have a gelding that has a history of abuse. Everyday is a new day with him. It becomes very frustrating for both of us at times. There is no quick fix, certainly no cheap fix. There are times I think, he'll never be "fixed" or totally trustworthy. There are times I think, he'd be better off dead. Then there are days, like today, where he joined up with me and followed me around the outdoor arena, and I think, my gosh he'll be a great partner-someday. It maybe silly but I promised this horse I would be his last owner, no selling him back into a situation which could place him at risk for more abuse or ending up at a low end auction and on a truck to Mexico. I knew this going in, and so did your friend with her horse. If she isn't willing to spend the $$$ and time to allow the horse to heal and trust again, the horse needs to be surrendered to a rescue, certainly not shot.

Decembereclipse · 11-07-2008, 10:54 AM

if you cant find a home surrender her to a horse rescue place such as habitat for horses they will take her dont put her down

Reyven · 11-07-2008, 11:21 AM

The situtation is all around bad. Getting a horse that has issues, you have to expect there are to be more than what you're told, especially in an adoption type situation.

I would agree that she needs to find a new trainer to start from the ground up. To me is seems the mare has issues that need to be addressed through groundwork, not just throwing a saddle on to ride. Horses take time to train, and you have to find the right 'concoction' that works with each individual horse. Time, not always big bucks, is what will get a horse to be able to trust people and be rideable again.

Bruce Wiley · 11-07-2008, 11:38 AM

I have done an few of these horses and this doesn't sounds like a rogue horse.
I have had some that came from rescues & other from people backyard they no longer wanted, because of problems with their horses.
Some of them turn out to be real gentle, safe riding horses.

I would suggest finding another trainer that will take on the ownership of the horse.
It would be up to the trainer to keep, or to sell the horse.
If the trainer could turn this horse around.
Your friend would have to understand, she no longer own the horse and she's just only an prospective buyer if she wants the horse back.
In this way, everyone wins in the process.
Ask alot of trainers at horse shows & boarding stables, etc about considering this option. Be up front about the horse's histroy, behaviors with any prospectives people.
I hope this helps.

ParkedOut · 11-07-2008, 12:10 PM

I completely agree. Donate the horse to a good, reputable trainer who can then spend all extra time getting the horse re-homed.

When I see a horse for sale as a 'broodmare only' I automatically think 'problem horse'.

When you get a project like that, you should be willing to see it through. If you can't, shooting it is only helping you, not the horse.

(I was saying 'you' as a general term, not really meaning YOU....sorry)

11-07-2008, 10:16 AM	#24
CJ Senior Member+ Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: NJ Posts: 5,983 Images: 48	A 10 yr old horse that h as been loafing for a couple years seems to me like it might be effectively back to 'green'. It is going to take a good, qualified trainer to retrieve, remind, and polish what she knows. She might be better at bad habits that get her out of work than engaging what she used to be good at. Thats assuming she has no physical or mental problems. Your friend may be well intentioned but out of her league, but the horse may not need to be shot, just professionally polished. If she can be polished, she'll have a better chances of going somewhere than just as as breeder. __________________ One Mare Can Make a Difference Pinky Ribbon

11-07-2008, 10:49 AM	#26
Appysrule Senior Member+ Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: In Cyberspace... Posts: 1,575 Images: 14	I have a gelding that has a history of abuse. Everyday is a new day with him. It becomes very frustrating for both of us at times. There is no quick fix, certainly no cheap fix. There are times I think, he'll never be "fixed" or totally trustworthy. There are times I think, he'd be better off dead. Then there are days, like today, where he joined up with me and followed me around the outdoor arena, and I think, my gosh he'll be a great partner-someday. It maybe silly but I promised this horse I would be his last owner, no selling him back into a situation which could place him at risk for more abuse or ending up at a low end auction and on a truck to Mexico. I knew this going in, and so did your friend with her horse. If she isn't willing to spend the $$$ and time to allow the horse to heal and trust again, the horse needs to be surrendered to a rescue, certainly not shot. __________________ "To be loved by a horse, or by any animal, should fill us with awe - for we have not deserved it".

11-07-2008, 11:21 AM	#28
Reyven Senior Member+ Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,729 Images: 14 Blog Entries: 4	The situtation is all around bad. Getting a horse that has issues, you have to expect there are to be more than what you're told, especially in an adoption type situation. I would agree that she needs to find a new trainer to start from the ground up. To me is seems the mare has issues that need to be addressed through groundwork, not just throwing a saddle on to ride. Horses take time to train, and you have to find the right 'concoction' that works with each individual horse. Time, not always big bucks, is what will get a horse to be able to trust people and be rideable again. __________________ ~Freedom did not come free~

11-07-2008, 11:38 AM	#29
Bruce Wiley Senior Member+ Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Southern California Posts: 2,066	I have done an few of these horses and this doesn't sounds like a rogue horse. I have had some that came from rescues & other from people backyard they no longer wanted, because of problems with their horses. Some of them turn out to be real gentle, safe riding horses. I would suggest finding another trainer that will take on the ownership of the horse. It would be up to the trainer to keep, or to sell the horse. If the trainer could turn this horse around. Your friend would have to understand, she no longer own the horse and she's just only an prospective buyer if she wants the horse back. In this way, everyone wins in the process. Ask alot of trainers at horse shows & boarding stables, etc about considering this option. Be up front about the horse's histroy, behaviors with any prospectives people. I hope this helps. __________________ http://bwnaturalhorsemanship.spaces.live.com/ Bruce.

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11-07-2008, 08:08 AM	#21
Ceilidh Senior Member+ Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Wetaskiwin, Ab, Canada Posts: 1,501 Images: 3	I agree with previous posters. If it is a nasty tempered mare she is no broodmare prospect. Solving the problems of a problem horse is a long term, high intensity proposition and requires understanding why this horse is behaving thus. If pain might be an issue, that must be addressed. If it is purely and simply that she has not been worked in years, then she must be retrained. You mentioned that the mare had a worried and frightened look in her eye - if it is an abuse case, good luck! If she was abused she most likely has lost all faith and trust in humans and without that what else can a horse do but fight back? If this is the case, then before one can even attempt to ride her, rapport must be built and trust reestablished. Once she trusts a person that person must start to retrain her and see what she can do. If she had and trust I would suggest trying her in harness, but a worried and fearful look would indicate that she is not ready. Sounds like a pasture ornament right now. Rescues are long term (sometimes permanent) projects. My rescue mare is one that I neither would sell nor can sell in the future (signed a contract promising to keep her forever) and I have no idea whether she was ever saddle broke.

11-07-2008, 09:50 AM	#22
denraydar Senior Member+ Join Date: May 2008 Location: im a nut in a hut Posts: 2,067 Images: 9	Has she tried to place the animal with an equine rescue? Has she tried to place the horse with animal control or surrender to local law enforcement? Your friend took the responsibility of a problem horse with the idea to make some money by fixing then selling it right? Well sometimes it is more than just training that is needed to fix a problem horse. If the horse has been removed from a neglectful or abusive situation it will likely take several months of working with it on the ground and in proper daily handling towards rehabilitative training for trauma. If the horse is cinchy and bucks it could have any number of medical problems such as a gastric ulcer or any type of injury sustained in the past that is now creating problems due to the horse being put back to work. Has she considered contacting the previous owner to see if she would take the horse? Taking a horse out of a bad place and turning it into a useful, happy, healthy companion that is marketable is rarely an easy task, it is a luck of the draw thing. In that sort of endeavor you operate at risk. The main risk is that you will fail to recondition the horse, if that happens enough times you will begin to get a poor reputation in the area. It is important that when you enter into this type of thing you do so with proper intent, if the intent is to do it for the horse and for yourself and you have the available funds to make it work (medical care, training, specialized feed if necessary) then it is fine. But if you enter into something solely with the intent to make a buck and you do not have adequate funds to ensure a good outcome then you have made a serious error in judgement. Equine Rescues and Animal Control are places that are well equipped to handle this sort of thing. Unfortunatly there are so many unwanted horses with issues, (usually created by their owners treatment of them) that they are becoming too filled up with other peoples problem horses.

11-07-2008, 10:04 AM	#23
sarahhowen Senior Member+ Join Date: May 2008 Location: Cheshire, UK Posts: 980 Images: 71	Quite often when dealing with a rescue horse you have to heal the mind as well as the body and this can take an awlful long time.........if it ever happens. It does sound to me like the mare is still worth working with, yes she has issues and these will not be easy issues to fix, but given time she could come right. I think the most important thing at the moment is to get more background on this mare, once you understand what has happened to her then its easier to try and fix. Has the current trainer given up on this mare after he has only been on it a handful of times? if so then he is not the right man (or woman) for the job.

11-07-2008, 10:54 AM	#27
Decembereclipse Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 492 Images: 26	if you cant find a home surrender her to a horse rescue place such as habitat for horses they will take her dont put her down

11-07-2008, 12:10 PM	#30
ParkedOut Senior Member+ Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 1,251 Images: 8	I completely agree. Donate the horse to a good, reputable trainer who can then spend all extra time getting the horse re-homed. When I see a horse for sale as a 'broodmare only' I automatically think 'problem horse'. When you get a project like that, you should be willing to see it through. If you can't, shooting it is only helping you, not the horse. (I was saying 'you' as a general term, not really meaning YOU....sorry)