[Blistering Winds]

the nice thing about this, the mare hasnt' "officially" entered labor. which is definitly working in her favor.

And why it is taking so long for the vet to do anything.

Dilating a pregnant ANYTHING is hard sometimes. You are working against nature. But once the mare is dilated...all SORTS of things can be given to force the dilation further and faster.

being at the actual equine vet at this time, is giving katelynn a much better shot over the cow vet that told her to do a procedure, that DEFINITLY would not be working, since we now know the mare isn't even dilated.

An equine vet that is waiting for a reason is much better off than a cow vet "guessing" and doing things that would endanger the mare even further.

So while yes we are all frustrated that nothing is being done right away, we at least know WHY and that they are doing things to speed things along.

Either way, with oxy, it is better if they have begun dilating, because if not, and labor starts, it could bring her down too much.

Once dilated to a certain degree, it will be easier, because you still want a 20 minute delivery, even with a dead foal. For the safety and well being of momma. Can't guarantee that she will dilate far enough fast enough if they just popped her with oxy.

**which I"m still in shock that the cow vet had her do betadine dousing without an open portal....**

[bay_blnd jmpr07]

BW-how exactly is not being in labor working in her favor?

I'm trying to learn.

I only have experience with Fiona's twins and the one being stuck for several hours.

I also have another question

She was told to give Katy 12cc penicillin ever other day. But Fiona was given penecillin twice EVERY day...Why is that?

[lacy]

Well, I am still hoping for a good ending and it sounds like your mare is in the perfect position for healthy trip home in a little while.

Thank you so much for still staying with us and posting. I know you have allot of your own questions and have gotten so much support on HGS- which is why we all share our lives on here.

But.... these have been such informational threads for me. I would like to breed my girl some day when the both of us are ready and Im learning so much about the procedures that you can do before and during a mares pregnancy.

I guess all Im saying is thank you and I wish you and Katy much luck.

[Blistering Winds]

Originally Posted by bay_blnd jmpr07

BW-how exactly is not being in labor working in her favor?

I'm trying to learn.

I only have experience with Fiona's twins and the one being stuck for several hours.

I also have another question

She was told to give Katy 12cc penicillin ever other day. But Fiona was given penecillin twice EVERY day...Why is that?

This is how I understand the reasons....different vets see things differently and have their own theories and such.


because the uterus is quiet, the muscles are quiet. If she was in "labor" and not dilating, she could rupture the uterus, releasing all the infection systemic and kill her in a few hours.

A mare, when in labor, will push that foal out regardless. No cervix dilation, they will rip and tear everything and that foal comes out. Mare's muscles are much stronger than humans in essence.

They'll deliver out the side if necessary.

Something with an infection we definitly don't want. So the infection is basically "contained" for the most part. As long as nothing tears.

I think the vet is trying to get the cervix to soften without upsetting the uterus to that point it says ENOUGH and just kicks the foal out immediately, not caring if there is a hole big enough or not.

Which can happen. Shoot, happens in humans. and with the infection there, and if tearing occurs, he can send that infection system wide and bring her down permanently.

That is what I see on my end.

As for Penn...EOD is "standard" numbers. Horse gets sick, 10-12 cc EOD. horse gets a cut, same thing.

She was dealing with a cow vet before. And a horse vet that he called didn't care or knew the cow vet didn't know squat, and just was doing something to shut her up till her mare passed. Some vets are like that. They don't care about the animal, just the funds the animal brings in. And will just "comfort" the owners mind by TELLING them something to get them out of their hair.

I quit one vet because he was like that. Never will I ever use him again.


Penn has so many reactions, so many issues with it. Some vets have completely taken it out of their whole regimine. Depending on which vet you see here, will depend if they have Penn in their fridge or not. Penn is one of those...cheap, inexpensive, quick to give type antibiotics. Many people have used it so much, it is ineffective as a whole in some areas.

This coming from my notes....
"With issues such as the uteru....HIGH END drugs are usually suggested. IV application is best due to the quickness and preciseness of penetrating the reproductive tract"

Penn is better than "nothing", just isn't as "good" as other drugs out there.

[bay_blnd jmpr07]

So was my vet wrong to perscribe Penn twice a day?(I think it was 5cc a time). She was also on another drug, but I can't remember what it was.

I also don't think she was given Penn the time she stayed at the vet. I think she only got it the day before she arrived when the ordeal actually happened. She did have a catheter put in and got several shots a day IV.

So since she isn't dialated then she still has the mucus plug? And that's keeping the infection from spreading?

Sorry for hijac.king your thread katylynn...

[Blistering Winds]

Originally Posted by bay_blnd jmpr07

So was my vet wrong to perscribe Penn twice a day?(I think it was 5cc a time). She was also on another drug, but I can't remember what it was.

I also don't think she was given Penn the time she stayed at the vet. I think she only got it the day before she arrived when the ordeal actually happened. She did have a catheter put in and got several shots a day IV.

So since she isn't dialated then she still has the mucus plug? And that's keeping the infection from spreading?

Sorry for hijac.king your thread katylynn...

Not wrong. I don't think any form of antibiotic help is wrong.

Just depends on a variety of things. How bad the infection is, what the situation is...

Your vet may have combined penn with another type to cover the basis of various strains of pyometra bacteria.

We only know that Katelynn had white stuff "come out" but the cervix according to the equine vet is closed. So she may only have a vaginal infection and not an internal infection.

But aggression is always best when it comes to that area from the vets I have worked for point of view. Slam the infection hard and fast.

But then, for all I know (and I don' know this for a fact) is that the stronger antibiotics may inhibit the drug in use to flush the uterus....and have to stop or hold it off.

Penn is cost effective compared to the others. So some vets, unless it is a dire necessity, will continue to use Penn regardless.

From my observation of various vets, it depends on their "experience" with it. If they have a bunch of penn reactions, they cull it totally for safety of their patients. Which one of my current vets have. He will never prescribe it ever again.

My other one, he'll use it on low level stuff, and save the expensive stuff for later.

When i asked both my vets (I've now bugged them both), they both said they wouldn't use Penn, they'd go IV antibiotics, and depending on how bad the infection is currently, the health of the mare currently, would depend on which one they would use at that moment.

they didn't give me specific IV drugs. but just generalized their comments.


And I see more "penn" used in Cattle vets than I do lately in equine vets. Many equine vets are not saying "give penn" for everything these days. Call up with the snots, leave alone till yellow/green then they give A something or other (I'm drawing a blank..AZT? ASM??? Someone remind me what it is)

Call in with a cut, they tell you to clean it and go about your business.

Some vets are still popping penn for everything, some aren't. (I notice a "not" trend with the newer vets over the older vets)

I honestly see straight Penn in horses becoming a thing of the past toward the end of my lifetime.....as the proof of the other, not much mroe expensive drugs (some even less)...become more common and the older vets "phase" out.


re-reading more of my notes....your regimine is more called for than the EOD by far.....because it is a more 'aggressive" treatment with Penn whereas, EOD treatment is a general situation...snots, etc.

[Blistering Winds]

BBJ....here is the difference in the use....I had to bug J for the fun of it....this is his view....He did say your vet was fine...different vets have different experiences and regimines for certain things...but he disagrees on the EOD treatment of penn by far!... Penn IV (which is different than the Penn IM) is "commonly" used for pyo he said. There are various drug names of the penn IV, but IV is more "called for" in repro infections due to the aggressiveness that is needed.

Your basic run of the mill IM that people have in their fridges will cause more issues.

Same IV drug is called for in Strangles cases where antibiotics "MIGHT" help. His drug of choice for both is Vancomycin....over the "Penn" we all have.

Much more aggressive, hits the Penn resistant bacteria, excellent for possible septic issues and definitely great for repro issues

It also has less issue with crossing into the intestinal tract and upsetting those bugs. Unlike Penn IM, which you definitly need to follow up with pro-biotics to reset the hindgut.

He follows ALL antibiotics with pro-biotics, but he sees less intestinal tract issues after a repro issue when he uses vanco...

but he does see the benefit of regular penn....and the comfort many vets have with it. it is highly proven....it is effective to a degree....if you can get the owners to follow it properly and to a T and follow up to make sure it is working the way it "should" be working, where many don't and end up thinking their horse is "fine" when they really aren't....causing resistance and a FORCE to use vanco to get the resistance.

Food for thought from one vet's point of view.

[nicz2cu]

Originally Posted by katylynn06

Ok I haven't heard from the vet yet. But I was thinking this morning when she pulls through this she is going to need to be fed to gain back her weight. She has lost weight I'm not sure how much but you can tell it's down.

If she has lost the foal I'm not sure you'd want to give her a lot of grain per milk production. I'm not even sure she will produce milk if she was on fescue, definitely talk to the vet about this. The only reason I say this is because a friend of mine, his mare lost her foal and he had to milk her out and that was very painful for her.

[Blistering Winds]

Has anyone heard anything yet??

[bay_blnd jmpr07]

Thank you SO much BW. I really appreciate the time you spent answering my questions