[John]

Front row seat with lots of pop corn.

[Pally]

Hmm....not sure if I want to respond now.....

Not that flipping a rope at a horse is violent.....but I don't even remember seeing that anywhere in John Lyons materials....maybe the round pen stuff? Anyway, John is definitely one of the gentlest guys out there with the horses. He's the type not to lose patience, and if you could learn that from him...that would be an accomplishment in and of itself. He is quite well known for "three second kill" method after a horse bites, but if you implement it the way he describes it (and not just the way some people do), then it's absolutely warranted. His methods are based very much in conditioned response, and being able to move the horses feet.

Anyway, I am a big John Lyons fan overall, and here are my main reasons why. The baby steps nature of his teachings, is not only good for the horse, but makes it easy for the human. The way he teaches pressure and release is on such a small scale, that I think it actually teaches people feel around horses. He does not encourage rushing. He is open to the idea of learning from others and other training methods. While he does have his own stuff to sell, there's never the feeling of pressure that you can't possibly work without them.


Now, to be fair, my experience with Monty Roberts came from watching videos, where my preferred media is reading (as in, most other trainers methods I have studied in books....maybe it's apples to oranges). So I watch him "join up"....not a spectacular demonstration, not a disaster. But then he saddled the horse and had someone ride. It all looked very rushed to me, and the horse did not look one bit comfortable with what was going on. As he chased the horse around with rider on, he said something to the effect that some bucking was no big deal....well sure, I guess it's no big deal if you've got a "boy" to do your riding for you....personally, I like to work that out before I get on. I dunno, I can't even remember many specifics of what he said (which tells you something too), but I remember feeling overall pretty unimpressed and even uncomfortable after watching.

[angie j]

I LOVE John Lyons! In a world where people who own horses will suddenly decide that they can train (isn't modern tecknowledgy great) he is a savior. Since his methods are gentle, slow and often accomplishable from a safe distance (something that I can't alway say for all trainers) he offers 'newbies' a super safe envoronment to start from.

I think I have nearly every John Lyons vidio and read the book series and I can't think of anything remotely akin to 'violent' or even harsh. Rule #1 You can't get hurt, Rule #2 the horse can't get hurt.

[nainai8505]

Originally Posted by estherj92

I personally appreciate the fact that John Lyons is a Christian and uses his training clinics to witness to people

Now I think this fact would turn me off of Lyons...if I go to one of his seminars, I don't want to preached to but rather be "trained" (and I use this lightly as I use many different techniques) on how to deal with a specific situation(s).

[BlingRacer]

Originally Posted by nainai8505

Now I think this fact would turn me off of Lyons...if I go to one of his seminars, I don't want to preached to but rather be "trained" (and I use this lightly as I use many different techniques) on how to deal with a specific situation(s).

Ditto. If he's using training clinics to "witness" I hope he at least warns people...I would be THOROUGHLY ticked if I paid good money to acquire horse knowledge and had to listen to someone preaching at me. He needs to save that for some other forum where people aren't giving him their precious time and money.

[Suzannah]

Originally Posted by nainai8505

Now I think this fact would turn me off of Lyons...if I go to one of his seminars, I don't want to preached to but rather be "trained" (and I use this lightly as I use many different techniques) on how to deal with a specific situation(s).

This. I like Lyons'smethods, but I am not a Christian and would personally be very unhappy if he turned it into church.

(nothing wrong with being a Christian, going to church, etc, but if I wanted that I would be a Christian and go to church, not a horse training clinic.)

[Banat]

John's methods are so easy to understand and he teaches you to break everthing down into the simplest form. John and his son Josh have a phenomenal amount of knowledge and understanding of horses and people. They are the best clinicians I've ever ridden with or learned from. I've never had their methods not work with a horse.

[estherj92]

"This. I like Lyons'smethods, but I am not a Christian and would personally be very unhappy if he turned it into church." --Suzannah

I have never been to an actual John Lyons clinic, but from what I've been able to find out, his personal beliefs are expressed at them. However, I don't think anyone could accuse someone who does a little bit of witnessing for Christ around a very emphasized central focus of horse training, of being preachy and not giving them their money's worth. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and I appreciate hearing everyone's, but speaking as a Christian, my faith is an integral part of my life, and I can identify with someone who wishes to make relevant statements about its importance, and allusions to it when speaking to many people. However, I am far from saying that a trainer can't put on an awesome demonstration without mentioning God to the audience. I know many don't, and they can still be very impressive...

[Suzannah]

Originally Posted by estherj92

I have never been to an actual John Lyons clinic, but from what I've been able to find out, his personal beliefs are expressed at them. However, I don't think anyone could accuse someone who does a little bit of witnessing for Christ around a very emphasized central focus of horse training, of being preachy and not giving them their money's worth. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and I appreciate hearing everyone's, but speaking as a Christian, my faith is an integral part of my life, and I can identify with someone who wishes to make relevant statements about its importance, and allusions to it when speaking to many people. However, I am far from saying that a trainer can't put on an awesome demonstration without mentioning God to the audience. I know many don't, and they can still be very impressive...

Exactly. You are speaking as a Christian. I am a Buddhist, and I don't want to hear it. I have absolute respect for all kinds of religions, but when I am at a horse training demonstration, it is completely incongruous to hear someone's experience with God. I cannot identify with someone who needs to witness as proof of their religion every time they complete a task with excellence. All respect to John Lyons for his methods and success, and even his faith, which I admire, but to me it is unnecessary to point it out in that venue.

[doublebarr]

Originally Posted by Suzannah

All respect to John Lyons for his methods and success, and even his faith, which I admire, but to me it is unnecessary to point it out in that venue.

His Faith wouldn't be more than a sham if he didn't do what he does at his clinics. EVERYTHING we do (Christians) we do through Christ. All our abilities and talents come from him, so to use those talents and not recognize and acknowledge where they come from is living a false Christian life. So if you do really respect even his faith, then you should not be reacting negatively to his expressing it.