[longshot]

You guys are looking good Keep up the great work!

Originally Posted by Dawn

He's not breaking at the poll in some of the photos but rather further back (I can't view the videos on here unfortunately). I'd be curious if he's doing that in the video, or if the photos were just catching bad moments in time.

A good reining horse should break not at the poll, but from the withers. This does not mean that they are on their front end. They have the ability to relax their neck from the withers, hold their face close to vertical, but yet not travel on their front end.

[Dawn]

To have their face vertical, wouldn't they also have to flex at the pole? (Rather than several vertebrea down the neck.)

[John]

This is where an arab reiner holds its head normally and when in a spin. In a slide it is lower yet.

[dotgotcalm]

Yes! You two are looking better! Nice job!

A couple of things jump out at me. First I'm glad to see that you've gone back to a snaffle but those rope reins really need to go. It looked like you had a pretty nice pair of reins on the shank bit you were using earlier so I'd suggest that you put those on your snaffle. Reins with a bit of "weight" to them make it easier for the horse to feel smaller movements from your hands. (I talked earlier about a pre-cue. This goes back to that.)

Any progress on the saddle search? I know it's all you've got right now but that barrel saddle is killing you. You're still taking too much of a "forward" seat, especially at the lope.

Your leg position during the turn around bothers me. Basically, you've got your leg too far back to cue for a spin. You really should have three cue spots on each side. Right at the girth to move his front end over, one just slightly behind that to control his middle, and one a little farther back to control his hindquarters. If I put you on one of my finished horses and you put your spur where it is in the video you'd get a turn on the forehand! lol You're asking him to move his front feet during a spin so I'd suggest that you cue for that much closer to the girth. Moving your cue forward should also make it easier for you to sit down through him during a spin rather than getting cocked forward with your upper body because your pushing your leg backwards.

One question....why are you working on the counter canter? I know that Bernardo showed some in her videos but.....her horse is miles more advanced in his training than yours is so....unless there's a very specific reason for doing so I wouldn't recommend that you ask for the wrong lead on Jazz yet. I don't know what trainer you are going to be taking him to but I'd feel pretty confident in saying that Jazz being comfortable in the counter canter is going to make his job, teaching lead changes, harder. IMO, he needs to be very solid in his leads and his lead changes before any counter canter work.

Overall, you're making progress there kiddo! Keep up the good work!

[Bernardo]

Originally Posted by Dawn

Shouldn't that be like a 'catch and release' type of thing though? Or were all of these photos just taken at the 'right' time?

(Sorry if I'm being annoying, I'm just curious. I boarded with a reiner for awhile (training and schooling young horses) and I never saw her do anything like this. I find it interesting how training styles differ in every discipline.)

Well yes, but the way I do it at least. Is I drive them forward, and hold like that until I feel them soften in the face, but also start driving with their hind end nad using themselves better, once they do that then I release. But until they do I'll keep driving them through it.

Originally Posted by dotgotcalm

One question....why are you working on the counter canter? I know that Bernardo showed some in her videos but.....her horse is miles more advanced in his training than yours is so....unless there's a very specific reason for doing so I wouldn't recommend that you ask for the wrong lead on Jazz yet. I don't know what trainer you are going to be taking him to but I'd feel pretty confident in saying that Jazz being comfortable in the counter canter is going to make his job, teaching lead changes, harder. IMO, he needs to be very solid in his leads and his lead changes before any counter canter work.

Overall, you're making progress there kiddo! Keep up the good work!

Really, we use our counter canter to help school the lead change. Even teach it. I think it encourages the horse to change. But then again my horse has a solid lead change one him ahha

Although you might be right with Jazz, it seems her leans into the counter canter inside of picking himself up so it might not be the exercise for him yet!

[MaggieSue]

I can speak for her for this one. She's doing an exercise where she picks her hands up and drives the horse forward, that's why her hands are too high, because she schooling him in those photos

When I'm 'schooling' my horses, my hands stay in the position I'll be riding in, or they will get a different feel once I start riding. Why is she picking her hands up-and driving him forward? Why doesn't she drive him forward with her hands down? Doesn't make sense.

[Care To Jazz?]

Originally Posted by Dawn

How's the wither clearance on that saddle? It looks very tipped down and almost like it might be sitting on him a bit. All of that will cause for bad movement that isn't fair to judge the horse by.

Just curious as I am not a reiner, it's been several years since I've ridden a reiner, and I've never had a lot of professional instruction in reining....is there a reason that you're like sitting on top of the cantle?

He's not breaking at the poll in some of the photos but rather further back (I can't view the videos on here unfortunately). I'd be curious if he's doing that in the video, or if the photos were just catching bad moments in time.

All in all, he looks much better than some pics/video I recall seeing some time ago. (No clue how long, at least a year or more I'd say.)

My saddle clears his withers enough for him to be comfortable. I'm still trying to sell it though. It does tip forward probably because the gullet is too wide. The skirt of the saddle is never in a straight line even when it's not on him, I'm not sure why it was made that way.

Originally Posted by Dawn

Shouldn't that be like a 'catch and release' type of thing though? Or were all of these photos just taken at the 'right' time?

(Sorry if I'm being annoying, I'm just curious. I boarded with a reiner for awhile (training and schooling young horses) and I never saw her do anything like this. I find it interesting how training styles differ in every discipline.)

Did you read my other threads? I really just wanted to know if I had progressed since the last one and in the threads I was given exercises.

Originally Posted by dotgotcalm

Yes! You two are looking better! Nice job!

A couple of things jump out at me. First I'm glad to see that you've gone back to a snaffle but those rope reins really need to go. It looked like you had a pretty nice pair of reins on the shank bit you were using earlier so I'd suggest that you put those on your snaffle. Reins with a bit of "weight" to them make it easier for the horse to feel smaller movements from your hands. (I talked earlier about a pre-cue. This goes back to that.)
The other reins are tied to my other bridle. I was using my circle y and I didn't want to use light oil reins with it and my show reins are too short for training.

Any progress on the saddle search? I know it's all you've got right now but that barrel saddle is killing you. You're still taking too much of a "forward" seat, especially at the lope.
I can't search until I sell mine. But I have an idea of what i want.

Your leg position during the turn around bothers me. Basically, you've got your leg too far back to cue for a spin. You really should have three cue spots on each side. Right at the girth to move his front end over, one just slightly behind that to control his middle, and one a little farther back to control his hindquarters. If I put you on one of my finished horses and you put your spur where it is in the video you'd get a turn on the forehand! lol You're asking him to move his front feet during a spin so I'd suggest that you cue for that much closer to the girth. Moving your cue forward should also make it easier for you to sit down through him during a spin rather than getting cocked forward with your upper body because your pushing your leg backwards.
It was already mentionned in previous threads that this was the right spot for Jazz himself. I have experimented with other spots and they just didn't work as well.

One question....why are you working on the counter canter? I know that Bernardo showed some in her videos but.....her horse is miles more advanced in his training than yours is so....unless there's a very specific reason for doing so I wouldn't recommend that you ask for the wrong lead on Jazz yet. I don't know what trainer you are going to be taking him to but I'd feel pretty confident in saying that Jazz being comfortable in the counter canter is going to make his job, teaching lead changes, harder. IMO, he needs to be very solid in his leads and his lead changes before any counter canter work.
Because I was told to Just to get him to rely on my legs to switch leads or start on the lead I asked no matter which direction we're going in so that when it's time for flying changes I just need to ask with the other leg and he'll switch.

Overall, you're making progress there kiddo! Keep up the good work!
thanks!

[Care To Jazz?]

Originally Posted by MaggieSue

When I'm 'schooling' my horses, my hands stay in the position I'll be riding in, or they will get a different feel once I start riding. Why is she picking her hands up-and driving him forward? Why doesn't she drive him forward with her hands down? Doesn't make sense.

So I can keep contact and release faster by just lowering my hands.

I am perfectly capable of keeping my hands in a normal position. Besides, just because I need to ride one handed at shows doesn't mean I'm going to school one handed right away.

[Bernardo]

Originally Posted by MaggieSue

When I'm 'schooling' my horses, my hands stay in the position I'll be riding in, or they will get a different feel once I start riding. Why is she picking her hands up-and driving him forward? Why doesn't she drive him forward with her hands down? Doesn't make sense.

Because that helps pick the horse up and get off his shoulders, you can get the same elevation just holding your hands down. You want the horse to lift his frontend up, by putting your hands up your already right away encouraging the horse to go up and down into your hands, not leaning on them or down into your hands. If you keep your hands down and drive, your saying okay I want you to drive down into my hands. Get it?

The way I see it you need to be able to take your horses face from every angle. I expect my horse to give me his face from the side, up above.

It's simply a schooling exercise, not something you do when your show. You school everything so then you can put you hand down and go show and look pretty in the pen

That's the way I do it.

[MaggieSue]

Because that helps pick the horse up and get off his shoulders, you can get the same elevation just holding your hands down. You want the horse to lift his frontend up, by putting your hands up your already right away encouraging the horse to go up and down into your hands, not leaning on them or down into your hands. If you keep your hands down and drive, your saying okay I want you to drive down into my hands. Get it?

NO...keeping your hands up-keeps the horses head up, he's not able to get away from any pressure. If you want the horse to 'bend' and not 'lean' then you use your legs, not the bit. To encourage the front end to 'lift'...you start at the 'back end'. I never put my hands 'at my sides' either. Can't you see it totally changes the angle of the bit?
Get it?

So I can keep contact and release faster by just lowering my hands.

It's faster and easier just by 'squeezing and releasing' your fingers. Try it.