[sher327]

I'm just so heartbroken I'm in tears literally Dollar has been so great since he started his meds for his tooth. The last few days I've been able to cradle his head stick my hands in his mouth open it,grab his tongue,touch the tooth, ANYTHING!!! He was soooooo good yesterday and our trotting session was wonderful!

The only thing he did thats he never done before was when I went to check his feet he let me touch his fronts as good as always but he was swinging his butt around trying to keep me from the rear ones and hes NEVER done that! Either way I was patient and got them up and cleaned and forgot about it.

Today we go out there and hes being great so I bring him in the barn and we put his new halter/bridle combo on him (minus the bit) and he didn't flinch,great I think! So I go to check his feet and front is fine,move to the back and he starts rapidly pacing side to side to the point where I couldn't get them. So Tom comes over and as I talk to him he begins gently rubbing him working his way back to his back leg and foot. He made it as far as his rump by his tail dock and WHAM up flew the head so hard I thought hed break his rope and his butt swung around and he stomped!

I thought WHAT???? So I looked at where he was touching and theres nothing there! so I loved on him for about 10 mins or so and was able to pick his feet up fine, go figure!

So, and this is where I am mad at BOTH of them, hubby says well he's sure his mouth isn't hurting so why not try to put the soft rubber bit in his mouth so we could get it sized up, OY! That was a mistake, there he went again head flying,dancing and pinning me between him and the wall etc etc. He spun so hard once that his butt wacked me and shoved me right into the stall door HARD!

It took an hour of this to get the bit in his mouth. I stayed calm and tried talking to him soothing him etc and it didn't work The minute the bit was out of sight he would prop up a foot and act like nothing ever happened until he saw the bit again.

Finally Tom got so frustrated with him after he hurt me more than once that he took him by himself into the middle of the barn aisle and would try to put the bit in, every time he fought Tom spun him in circles and made him back,stop,drop his head and try again which muct have happened 15 times! A few times Dollar tossed his head and the bit so hard he smacked himself, me in the face Tom in the face once he took over alone. He finally took it but not what I would call willingly, it was more of a he opened his mouth mad and Tom slipped it in He will lower his head and the minute the bit touches his lips there goes his head again.

I was so frustrated with Dollar because he was being flat out hateful, p.issed at hubby for even trying today although I agree I don't think theres pain there now so I don't see why hes being worse about it but I was going to wait and ride in the sidepull.Although once it was in he was as good as gold again,relaxed,mannered etc, I'm so darn confused on whats wrong its not funny!

We're suppose to all go on a trail ride tomorrow and he said if he does it again we have to send him to a trainer or sell him and hes leaning more towards selling him because he said I'm not going to let you ride a horse that shows such attitude and let you get hurt when you aren't doing anything to him. If I can't get this fixed, I won't have Dollar anymore and I am completely depressed now...... The whole back feet thing if that becomes a habit will send hubby over the top and Dollar will be gone

[sher327]

is the little beast just testing me? is something happening to him when I'm not around that is making him behave this way? I can't believe how frustrated I am and sad right now I almost think something in his back or leg hurt for him to throw his head so high and hard,shoot backwards and stomp like that but once I looked him over I didn't see anything, this really s.tinks...

[Shotgun93]

Don't be so upset, I am sure that he was just frustrated, you were frustrated and the horse was really frustrated. Just tell your hubby that you don't want to sell your horse, simple as that.
Maybe you should send him to a trainer, or take a few lessons with him, it might put your husband a little bit more at ease.
As for Dollar's behavior with the feet and the bit, I call that their "What If" stage. When they start to ask "what if I don't want to lift my back feet for her?" and then he waits to see your reaction. Shotgun does this to me a lot. Something we've done a hundred times, he suddenly just decides that he doesn't want to it. We usually have a little argument and then I win. Usually.
Anyway, please don't be sad, I am sure that everything will work out. You just need to be open and honest with your husband. Tell him that you absolutely don't want to give up your horse, and ask him what he wants to do to work it out with you.

[Paint_luver]

First, I would look more into pain if I were you. Especially with the leg thing

The only thing I can think of to do would be persistant, gentle, yet firm. I agree with shotgun, it sounds as if he's seeing what would happen if you did (you fill in this part). WHenever he tried avoiding something you want him to do, keep at it. Don't let him win. Don't get frustrated or mean.. but remain firm and assertive. Ask a little more firmly if you need to. If Dollar steps up his bad behavior (if you're sure he is doing it out of disrespect only), then you step up what you're doing. This is how Buddy worked anyway. I don't really know Dollar enough to know if that would help actually. Dollar could be the exact opposite and if he's avoidng something and you step it up a notch, he could get worse and never get to the breaking point, so to speak. If he's like Buddy was, you'll have to keep after him and MAKE him listen, even if he gets worse at first.

I'm sorry if this is confusing, I'm not trying to be. You know Dollar's personality though and how he will react in certain circumstances. I'm leaning more towards that he is not like Buddy.. and if so, I would disregard my help, as that technique could make him more fearful and less willing to work. With Buddy, if I had stopped asking whatever I was asking of him right after he behaved like that, Buddy would have seen that as a victory and I would have never gotten anywhere.

I don't know. Try to keep your chin up. Explain to hubby that this one day doesn't mean anything. Horses can just get goofy at times. Something they may have been perfect at for weeks or months on end, they may decide to act totally out of the norm one day.

Okay, I'm fairly certain this post wasn't helpful at all. Sorry... I tried.

[WhisperingStar]

Sounds like pain to me, if he was not like this before. There is a reason he is being so adamant about not putting the bit in his mouth and it still could be the tooth. ( geez, you know I wish they could talk sometimes . )

As for the leg, could be pain too. Has a vet been out to look ? If he doesn't calm done in a couple of days and let you touch him there get your vet to look. There is a possibility he is testing you ... a question in that regard is , how does he respect you ? Has he done this sort of behaviour before ? Has he even tried this type of thing beofre but just a little and has progressed to this ? If you answer no to these then I would say pain is your answer.

For now, why not try a bosal or hackmore on him , once you rule out an injury to his leg. If his mouth is sore then this will give him time to heal and you can still ride. I have a friend whose horse will not ever take a bit, and the only reason she can figure is that he had his teeth banged too many times before she bought him and he just will not allow a bit now.

I am sorry you are going through this. Just tell hubby to be patient ( easier said then done , right ? ) Good luck and I hope things work out.

[sher327]

honestly, my gut is telling me he is testing me with everything he has. He is constantly the low man in the pasture and I honestly think somewhere I've lost his respect and hes not seeing me as " a horse above him" and I don't know where I went wrong! He acts scared of Tom,more now than ever and hes never liked men to begin with,but disrespect for me and swinging his butt to shove me and his head at mine is not something I'm feeling real good about

Someone pointed out testing the waters and a lack of respect as a possible reason he is doing this and I agree with everyone whos sitting back thinking it. If I didn't keep at him with the bit he would have saw it as a victory, of that I am sure but it got down right dangerous today, he had no regard for my space and he literally bullied me away from him!

I am going out there every day for the next week, and everyday we will work,we WILL take the bit and we WILL have our feet picked Thing is, the more I battled with him today the more wound up and scared looking he got and I never hit him or did more than give a few tugs on the halter and tell him to knock it off so it wasn't like I was abusing him but he acted like I was going to eat him alive, the same way he acts to all the other horses who are above him in the pasture,exactly like he acts with them.The only time I hit him today was when he swung his butt and pinned me and when he met my body he met a firm slap on his rump to get him over from my outstretched hand or I would have been mashed,literally!

he does not give in easy, he is as stubborn as a mule and I am very patient but right now I feel like a complete failure and honestly not sure if I want to take him on a trail ride tomorrow, don't feel like being tested high speed on treacherous trails by a ticked off pony The entire herd is going on the ride and at this point they'd be home before I got the bit in his mouth!

[sher327]

WhisperingStar- we tried a hackamore and he reared straight up! NOT doing that again LOL I have a sidepull but I have not taken him on a trail ride in it before. He has always let me pick up his feet,he was hesitant the first few days but always let me and had gotten to the point I could walk to the next one and he was already shifting his weight to get ready.

Hes always been iffy about his head and mouth but hes had a rough past with that and I had him accepting the bit/bridle no problem and handling his ears without fuss. He was still fighting the bit when riding but would settle down after a few minutes and relax. We were making great progress Then I changed his bridle to one that fit better(hes hard to fit) and the VERY NEXT day he refused to be bridled. Mind you, when I put that new bridle on him the day before we didn't even go riding, I just fitted it to him so there was no reason for that to affect him?????
So I started looking for things that could be wrong and found the tooth,the vet confirmed it was infected and put him on meds, each day for the last 8 days now he has been more and more like himself again until the foot thing last night and today, and the down right brawl he had with me today over the bit!

[wyldterv]

Sher MY experience, from your description, sounds NOT like pain with Dollar but total "I DO NOT HAVE TO DO THIS!!" syndrome. He's figured out if he throws his head about enough, you might not go ahead and put the bit in his mouth... Granted with his mouth being sore earlier that is what helped push him harder into this habit, but it's soemthing he's done for a long time if I remember correctly, and it's worked to his advantage in HIS mind's eye.

The back legs and butt swinging issues would have been met with a SWIFT Whap on the legs if he were my horse... even if he was sore in the legs (which I sincerely doubt is the case) he does NOT get to threaten to kick... I'd give him a good POP on the hip/stifle area and IMMEDIATE put that boy to hard work, RIGHT there in the barn isle...

Head tossing would get hard work out of me too.. You have time to play these games, that's OK by me, I'm not going to get mad, I'm not going to beat on you, I'm NOT GOING TO PLAY THIS GAME, YOU my friend are going to work your hiney off in circles right HERE right NOW and you're going to work until you're so tired you will decide standing nice and quiet is a MUCH better program. There's Option A and there's Option A, either way, you will stand quietly while I do things with you.

I really think he's figured out your number. Getting him to a training clinic or good trainer may do BOTH of you a world of good IMO!

[SunBun]

Sounds like a respect thing, but still get him checked for pain. Have you ever tried join up? This might help with him respecting you and understanding that you're the leader and he should bow to you!! lol

As for hubby, just tell him you don't wanna sell him!! He is your horse after all, right? Good luck and hang in there

[SalemWitchChild]

I can't comment on the behavior of your horse. But if my husband said I had to do anything! I'd put him in his place! This is your horse. You decide what is best for him.