[kmolen2]

...to work with a horse who thinks he's a giraffe? He runs around with his head in the clouds, neck drawn back, nose in the air (alright, his nose may not be COMPLETELY in the air, but he keeps his head pretty darn high!). I want to work with him and teach him to work with his whole body- back, and hind end, to push himself forward, instead of just his head/neck-- and also build up some muscle back there...he is very under muscled- enough that I don't want to get on and ride him until he's a bit stronger (and back in the respectful mindset he needs to be). I thought side reins would be a good tool to use for this, and then I read the side rein thread where there are a lot of opinions for and against them. I'd be very green at using them, and would be asking for help around the barn when I do, but I guess I'm asking- is this a case where you think side reins are appropriate, and if not, what would you use?

I want to add that the main reason I'm asking this is because I'm new to doing this, and don't want to set my horse behind- and make him difficult to ride by toughening his mouth since I'm so inexperienced...but then again- the only way to get experience is to do it, right??

[kmdstar]

How old is the horse, how long has he been in training? Are you doing basic flatwork or...what? What bit do you ride him in?

Have his teeth been floated? Is saddle fit okay? Has he seen a chiro?

If you have a video of him either running around even without a rider or him being ridden, that would be extremely helpful - vid of him being ridden would be most helpful.

If you're not comfortable getting on this horse given the condition he's in now, I REALLY don't think you're going to want to hook up sidereins at this point in time.

[kmdstar]

Originally Posted by kmolen2

I want to add that the main reason I'm asking this is because I'm new to doing this, and don't want to set my horse behind- and make him difficult to ride by toughening his mouth since I'm so inexperienced...but then again- the only way to get experience is to do it, right??

If you don't have an educated trainer, you won't want to deal with sidereins on your own. Learning by doing, in this case, could set your horse far more behind than riding even heavy handed (that does NOT mean it's just fine to ride heavy handed - I'm just saying).

[Taihoa]

I love euro lunge systems!! Makes the horse use its whole body and you can adjust the levels for even the most green horse (teaches them to work long and low) right up to GP dressage horses that work in a more collected frame.
I used mine all the time until my freak of a horse outgrew it

[PiaffePony0412]

It is possibly something that could be helped with side reins.

How does this horse move freely? Does he only run with his head up and back hollow when he is under saddle? With or without a rider? Are you sure the saddle fits? What is this horse's prior under saddle experience? What is this horse's relationship with the bit? Is he used to free reins or contact?

Assuming the saddle fits, and there are no other issues that are causing him to be uncomfortable, it is possible he is afraid to round his back out, which happens to a lot of horses who have had bad past experiences under saddle. Or maybe it is the contact with the bit he is afraid of so he is keeping his head up to evade it. Someone slamming their back, someone yanking on their mouth, etc. etc.

Or, it could be a million other things. haha
But for a lot of situations causing this, I would say side reins could most definitely helpful.
The principle of side reins is to allow the horse to create a relationship with the bit through a consistent and fixed rein- thus creating contact that they trust to move INTO, stretching out their neck, rounding their back and using their hind, aka using their whole body, just as you said. All of this eventually can lead to more balance, confidence, freedom of movement, forwardness, etc. Then add these principles with a rider who is able to maintain the same soft but consistent rein that the side reins provided, and you can go a lot further.

If you figure enough things out about the WHY of this horse's problem, and it turns out that side reins could help you, I think for sure there are plenty of people on here who are experienced with them that you could be coached to use side reins in a productive and correct manner. That is what forums are about!!!
If you understand their purpose, their benefit and how the horse should respond, they really aren't that complicated.



-Piaffepony0412

[kmolen2]

How old is the horse, how long has he been in training? He is 6, and the training question...wellll... he was with a trainer for 10 months while I was pregnant, and I don't think she did a thing with him. He came back thin, feet needing work, and acting more ferile than I would expect of a horse who had been in training. My fault- I couldn't get out to see him and check up on what had been going on with him what with moving, finishing school, work, and being pregnant. Anyhow- he's been with a HGF member on lease for the last three months. He's coming home tomorrow. She's very experienced in training and has been working him with side reins, but recommended I get some with D rings. She had been working him in elastic ones, and he is, apparently, at the point where he's doing well enough they could be tightened more, but hers don't allow for it. He's coming home because her pasture is next to a hay field, and he's breaking out of her fence to get to it.

Are you doing basic flatwork or...what? Yes, basic flatwork. He's rusty...and needs some work!

What bit do you ride him in? Before he was sent to the trainer, I rode him in a regular snaffle.

Have his teeth been floated? Is saddle fit okay? Has he seen a chiro? Teeth were floated about a year ago. I believe saddle fit is okay- I can get pictures or get someone out to double check for me tomorrow. Hasn't seen a chiro...it's probably important to mention that he's a WB x ASB- so that's probably where the high head set comes from.

If you have a video of him either running around even without a rider or him being ridden, that would be extremely helpful - vid of him being ridden would be most helpful. This is the only video I have. It's from when he came home from being at the previous trainer I mentioned- where he came back thin. He's not as thin as this anymore... (Oh- and you have to excuse my hubby. He's not a big horse guy... )


If you're not comfortable getting on this horse given the condition he's in now, I REALLY don't think you're going to want to hook up sidereins at this point in time. He's been in side reins. I don't think HE's the issue. It's me. I'll probably wait until the trainer can work with BOTH of us before I do anything new since I haven't used them before.

[kmdstar]

Originally Posted by kmolen2

What bit do you ride him in? Before he was sent to the trainer, I rode him in a regular snaffle.

See, that's why I asked - my horse used to do exactly what you described. Nose in the air, etc, etc. Anything with a jointed mouthpiece will cause her to do that, I've read it can pinch their tongue.

Originally Posted by kmolen2

Teeth were floated about a year ago. I believe saddle fit is okay- I can get pictures or get someone out to double check for me tomorrow. Hasn't seen a chiro...it's probably important to mention that he's a WB x ASB- so that's probably where the high head set comes from.

If you can, get the pics and post them here - I'm not helpful when it comes to saddle fit but there are many people on here who are. It can make a huge difference.

Originally Posted by kmolen2

If you're not comfortable getting on this horse given the condition he's in now, I REALLY don't think you're going to want to hook up sidereins at this point in time. He's been in side reins. I don't think HE's the issue. It's me. I'll probably wait until the trainer can work with BOTH of us before I do anything new since I haven't used them before.

Sounds like a good idea! As I said, it sounds like you described my horse (how she was a year ago) and turns out...it was mostly my fault. I'd definately hold off on the sidereins until your trainer can work with you.

[kmolen2]

^^ What type of bit would you suggest then?

[IIIBarsV]

What I would do:

Inside rein, inside leg. "Pressure, pressure, pressure.... release" (relaxed contact, slack in the rein). Lots and lots of that, both directions, at a walk, until the horse has a lightbulb moment and starts giving to the bit nicely. Outside rein will have to be relaxed. Do not let the horse turn into the rein- hold him out in a "straight" line with your inside leg, and adjust him with your outside rein if he's not getting it.

Get him so nice and soft on the bit with this gentle, easy exercise that he will drop his nose down and bend around your leg (gently.... don't crank him too tight), with "pinkie finger pressure".

After he's "figured it out" for individual sides, then start asking with both reins, both legs... focussing more pressure on one if he's confused about it. This will take a lot of solid practice, but it will pay off with one heck of a soft-mouthed horse who learns self-carriage.

If you were experienced with draw reins and the horse was really having "no clue" on giving to inside rein/inside leg, then I would say throw those on for a day or two and do the same exercise with the draw reins (relaxed contact.... some slack in the rein). Draw reins make the pressure cues a little "easier" to understand for the horse, especially if the horse has been trained for something different (or just ridden around on his forehand his entire life).

Personally, I like the "no gadget" approach better because you can really get a feel for the horse, and encourage him to develop the "right" muscle groups at a nice leisurely pace, rather than risk over-working them too early and damaging something. Even the hardest-mouthed horses will respond eventually to inside rein/inside leg... but you might need more "inside leg" power than usual. LOL

I actually prefer to teach this one on the ground. I make a habit of holding out my hand, palm down, to greet horses. My own horses are conditioned to respond immediately by touching or smelling the hand when they see it out. Other horses who are not given the "handshake" or "how's it going?" won't always respond to it.

When I'm teaching them to feel inside leg pressure and bend around the inside leg, I (in the stall or on the ground), offer the same-side hand for them to smell, and simultaneously press my other hand against their side where my leg would hang on a stirrup. In a stall is easiest... if they ignore it, you use your thumb, and wiggle it a bit- be annoying. They will usually look around and be like "What are you poking me for?" That's when they see the hand, touch it, and you release the "leg" pressure.

One thing with that- if they come around aggressively and try to bite or act like they're biting, then say "NO", and block with the offered hand- but do NOT remove the pressure from the "leg" hand. Only remove the pressure when they smell your offered hand politely, then praise and pet

Do this enough in the stall or on the ground, and they will "clue in" alot faster when they feel your leg in the saddle.

[IIIBarsV]

I agree on the bit thing.... I like three-piece mouths, full-cheeks... or those nifty "mullen" type mouthpieces that Myler makes with the center roller. Those prevent "nutcracker effect" on the horse's mouth. Nutcracker Effect can be a real pain if you have a single-jointed mouthpiece (aka "snaffle mouth").