I tell Ya I Am Losin' It !

StarfireArizona · 10-25-2009, 06:44 AM

Please forgive me for I know this is going to be long, and I thank anyone who reads it all

I am going bonkers, and I really hope someone has been through this & can suggest something..... I love my mare and I don't want to part with her, but this cannot continue....

I have an 8 year old OTTB gelding, my 15 year old TB mare, her 2 year old son & a 28+ year old QH. I have had them all for 3-1/2 years. My mare used to be willing to go anywhere & do anything, and was very detached and indifferent to the other 2....but ever since her son was born, she changed dramatically. I totally understand being protective of her baby, but when she was busy eating or whatever, I would take him away & work with him to get them both used to being apart. She was absolutely fine with that for I supposed she trusted me with him....and I never abused that trust. She would look around for him & when she saw I had him, she would go back to what she was doing. He was more than fine with it, and now is much more of a people horse than a herd animal for the most part.

Now the problem..... Because they all are out together 24/7, I have an extreme herdbound situation.....my mare being the worst. She has an acute case of separation anxiety, and it is reaching a flash point with me....and it breaks my heart. It all started when we began weaning her son Desi over 2 years ago. I have a very small place and a set up for 3 horses.....never expecting the pinto surprise my mare had in store for me. We made room for him and made the best of it. When weaning time came, sending either away was not an option, so I put up wood in front of the stalls, and either Shiloh or Desi was out while the other was in. They could touch noses but nothing else. I know they were both lost and upset, and was not surprised when she paced like a lunatic in the stall at night when he was out. But after 4 months, this behavior had not abated one iota. Finally when I was sure she would not let him nurse, I put Desi in the round pen with Rusty our senior QH, while his mother & Tino were out in the arena. They were still altogether but separate, and this worked great.

During this time I have taken all 4 separately out for walks around the neighborhood countless times.......but when it is my mare that is left behind in the round pen or stall, I can't even begin to describe how insane she acts. She paces like a crazed lunatic & calls out constantly, and when I return within about 20 -30 minutes, she is so drenched in sweat that she is dripping onto the ground. For about 2 months now, this has gone on every time I take one out, and that is almost every night. I have discussed with several other horse people, and everyone says that repetition & her seeing the one that left returns, she will eventually adapt. But the relentless actions at weaning time tells me that just may not happen.

If this is not bad enough, her calling out is making it almost dangerous being with the one I take out, for it constantly prompts return calls & agitation on their part. When they call out, I immediately make them circle me, changing directions, for about 30 seconds. After a couple times of this, often the calling stops.....but last night my 2 year old was horrible. The circling, backing up & HQ yields went on for over 10 minutes while the calling back continued almost uninterrupted. The night before the same went on when I walked my mare.....the constant calling, circling & backing. After returning with my colt last night, I took out my 8 year old while my mother walked the QH. My mare's antics went on for almost 2 hours while we prepared to leave & while were out. Upon returning, when I let her out of the round pen, she was so sweat encrusted & exhausted, she walked out into the arena & laid down straight out & would not get up to eat.

I am at wits end. I have no one to help me, so it has been extremely frustrating.

Unfortunately I know what my options are with my mare.....rehome her or send her away for a while. Finances won't allow for boarding out, and I certainly don't want to part with her. This I know I have to work out for myself.

My question is does anyone have any suggestions of how else to handle the calling back of my walking partner ? Was I doing right with circling & HQ yields ? If this were your so called life, how would you handle it ?

MuckMuck · 10-25-2009, 07:24 AM

Unfortunately,It does not sound like you have the facilities to handle the situation.

There is MUCH that you might have done before to ease the transition of weaning and now a pattern is set.

The only way to get out of this is a clean break between the two.
You could get the baby(two year old)in with a friend,but mom is still going to want what she wants.
Get the mare or the 2yo to another ranch.

StarfireArizona · 10-25-2009, 07:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MuckMuck

Unfortunately,It does not sound like you have the facilities to handle the situation.

There is MUCH that you might have done before to ease the transition of weaning and now a pattern is set.

The only way to get out of this is a clean break between the two.
You could get the baby(two year old)in with a friend,but mom is still going to want what she wants.
Get the mare or the 2yo to another ranch.

She is not only like this with her son, but all of the others as well. If she sees me bring the halter & lead out & walk toward one of the others, she starts nickering & walks over to see what is going on....and keeps her head almost to their tail making sure they don't leave. This only came on this bad within the past year. She was upset when Desi left with me when he was younger, but never this extreme....

MuckMuck · 10-25-2009, 07:44 AM

Starfire,

Have you ever gone to a party or meeting and you were in a room with a bunch of people and you got the feeling that "It just wasn't working"?

The dynamics of your group are not working for whatever reason.

I have about 25 horses on my place and there are some combinations that just don't work.
If I were to place certain horses in a group there would be a melt down or war.
You have to find a place where your mare is happy WITHOUT the baby.
Some combination will work,but it may not be at your place for a while.

I have a mare here that lost her best friend to illness a few years ago and I tried a dozen combinations to see if I could put her at ease and finally found something to make up for her loss.

You will know when you have it because you will get your old mare back and she will be happy.

StarfireArizona · 10-25-2009, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MuckMuck

Starfire,

Have you ever gone to a party or meeting and you were in a room with a bunch of people and you got the feeling that "It just wasn't working"?

The dynamics of your group are not working for whatever reason.

I have about 25 horses on my place and there are some combinations that just don't work.
If I were to place certain horses in a group there would be a melt down or war.
You have to find a place where your mare is happy WITHOUT the baby.
Some combination will work,but it may not be at your place for a while.

I have a mare here that lost her best friend to illness a few years ago and I tried a dozen combinations to see if I could put her at ease and finally found something to make up for her loss.

You will know when you have it because you will get your old mare back and she will be happy.

I very much understand what you are saying......and I agree 100%. I was just trying to make you understand that she is so afraid of any of them leaving....even Rusty who she HATES. When I got her she had been passed around so much that she was detached...even with us. It took about 2 years to gain her trust & affection. Now she asks for kisses by sticking her nose right in your face. I don't know if I want the old girl back considering how distant she was & didn't want to be touched. I am so willing to just work with her to meet somewhere in-between

Even a little over a year ago when I had the trailer on blocks in the arena working on loading with all of them, she would get nervous when she saw me walking any of the others toward the trailer thinking they were leaving. I did this over and over for weeks, and after a while she didn't care anymore. I was hoping she would eventually figure out that even though they leave, they come right back....and she'd chill out.....but now the anxiety is so extreme I really don't know.

Maybe once my husband can find employment again after almost a year, I can ask around for somewhere to send her away for a couple of months. Right now it is a struggle just to feed them, so I can't take this route. But as I mentioned in my original post, I know this is one of my only options.

MuckMuck · 10-25-2009, 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StarfireArizona

I very much understand what you are saying......and I agree 100%. I was just trying to make you understand that she is so afraid of any of them leaving....even Rusty who she HATES. When I got her she had been passed around so much that she was detached...even with us. It took about 2 years to gain her trust & affection. Now she asks for kisses by sticking her nose right in your face. I don't know if I want the old girl back considering how distant she was & didn't want to be touched. I am so willing to just work with her to meet somewhere in-between

Even a little over a year ago when I had the trailer on blocks in the arena working on loading with all of them, she would get nervous when she saw me walking any of the others toward the trailer thinking they were leaving. I did this over and over for weeks, and after a while she didn't care anymore. I was hoping she would eventually figure out that even though they leave, they come right back....and she'd chill out.....but now the anxiety is so extreme I really don't know.

Maybe once my husband can find employment again after almost a year, I can ask around for somewhere to send her away for a couple of months. Right now it is a struggle just to feed them, so I can't take this route. But as I mentioned in my original post, I know this is one of my only options.

I would start with loading her into the trailer and take her to a friends house for an hour and bring her back or to a local arena and back.

Let her know that she can go out and back and still see another day.

If that is too much for her than take her for a walk away from the other horses for a couple of hours and if you can't ride her than walk her.

You have to get that cord cut because she will not look to you for any training while she is looking to them only.

StarfireArizona · 10-25-2009, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MuckMuck

I would start with loading her into the trailer and take her to a friends house for an hour and bring her back or to a local arena and back.

Let her know that she can go out and back and still see another day.

If that is too much for her than take her for a walk away from the other horses for a couple of hours and if you can't ride her than walk her.

You have to get that cord cut because she will not look to you for any training while she is looking to them only.

That is easy enough to do.....sounds like a great place to start

I have tried walking her in the area, but the problem here is there are no trees to buffer sounds....so even 1/2 mile away they can still hear each other, and that is when the problem erupts. Add to it that every street we walk up there are other horses calling out as well...

What should I do about the calling back for the time being though..... Keep up the hard work at that very moment or ignore it ? If I ignore it, I am afraid it will continue for the entire walk

MuckMuck · 10-25-2009, 04:35 PM

There really is not much you can do about the calling and just have to work through it.
Everyone has different settings and I have a place that I can get away from the herd and also a place that they can kind of see each other.
The idea is to let the horse know that there is a beginning a middle and an end to the exercise.
In other words that the horse has a sense that the training will end at some point and they will be able to get back to their friends.

If the mare can not go for a long walk by her self then take one of the friends at first.
After a while you can change friends and then maybe try going all by herself.
You are really trying to get the mares attention on YOU!

After I wean my babies I take a long walk to the mail box about 1/4 mile down the road.
Sometimes I grab two babies and take a further walk to the end of the road which is a mile long.
This prepares them later in life as we start to take trail rides away from the herd.
You should be the center of that mares world,not the baby.

seaecho · 10-25-2009, 05:26 PM

This is just my two cents, but if I had a horse that got so upset when I took a herdmate out that she was soaked and dripping with sweat when I got home, and was so exhausted that she laid down and wouldn't even get up to eat, I'd sell her YESTERDAY. If you aren't totally and completely attached to her for life, find her another home. I truly believe its the kindest thing you could do for her. Sounds as if this is a pattern, and its become automatic for her. She is getting herself so worked up that it may be only a matter of time before she colics very badly. My older Arab whinnies and paces the whole time I'm gone with one of his herdmates, but I don't come home to a dripping with sweat, exhausted horse. He's just a bit wound up. There's a big difference between my situation and yours. You have to look at what is best for your horse. I would think it might be best to have her live in a one-horse situation. Otherwise, I fear the same thing might happen all over again. Again, maybe not, because her son wouldn't be involved. In any case, I strongly feel she needs to be off your property and separated permanently from your other horses. Otherwise, your other horses may be ruined, from the sounds of how they act when she screams for them. These are just my feelings, of course.

CrazyHorse · 10-25-2009, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seaecho

This is just my two cents, but if I had a horse that got so upset when I took a herdmate out that she was soaked and dripping with sweat when I got home, and was so exhausted that she laid down and wouldn't even get up to eat, I'd sell her YESTERDAY. If you aren't totally and completely attached to her for life, find her another home. I truly believe its the kindest thing you could do for her. Sounds as if this is a pattern, and its become automatic for her. She is getting herself so worked up that it may be only a matter of time before she colics very badly. My older Arab whinnies and paces the whole time I'm gone with one of his herdmates, but I don't come home to a dripping with sweat, exhausted horse. He's just a bit wound up. There's a big difference between my situation and yours. You have to look at what is best for your horse. I would think it might be best to have her live in a one-horse situation. Otherwise, I fear the same thing might happen all over again. Again, maybe not, because her son wouldn't be involved. In any case, I strongly feel she needs to be off your property and separated permanently from your other horses. Otherwise, your other horses may be ruined, from the sounds of how they act when she screams for them. These are just my feelings, of course.

I'm sorry, but I have to agree with this

There was a time when I thought my mare was going to be extremely herdbound but she snapped out of it pretty quickly, thank God!

10-25-2009, 06:44 AM	#1
StarfireArizona Senior Member+ Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Arizona Desert Posts: 1,179 Images: 74	I tell Ya I Am Losin' It ! Please forgive me for I know this is going to be long, and I thank anyone who reads it all I am going bonkers, and I really hope someone has been through this & can suggest something..... I love my mare and I don't want to part with her, but this cannot continue.... I have an 8 year old OTTB gelding, my 15 year old TB mare, her 2 year old son & a 28+ year old QH. I have had them all for 3-1/2 years. My mare used to be willing to go anywhere & do anything, and was very detached and indifferent to the other 2....but ever since her son was born, she changed dramatically. I totally understand being protective of her baby, but when she was busy eating or whatever, I would take him away & work with him to get them both used to being apart. She was absolutely fine with that for I supposed she trusted me with him....and I never abused that trust. She would look around for him & when she saw I had him, she would go back to what she was doing. He was more than fine with it, and now is much more of a people horse than a herd animal for the most part. Now the problem..... Because they all are out together 24/7, I have an extreme herdbound situation.....my mare being the worst. She has an acute case of separation anxiety, and it is reaching a flash point with me....and it breaks my heart. It all started when we began weaning her son Desi over 2 years ago. I have a very small place and a set up for 3 horses.....never expecting the pinto surprise my mare had in store for me. We made room for him and made the best of it. When weaning time came, sending either away was not an option, so I put up wood in front of the stalls, and either Shiloh or Desi was out while the other was in. They could touch noses but nothing else. I know they were both lost and upset, and was not surprised when she paced like a lunatic in the stall at night when he was out. But after 4 months, this behavior had not abated one iota. Finally when I was sure she would not let him nurse, I put Desi in the round pen with Rusty our senior QH, while his mother & Tino were out in the arena. They were still altogether but separate, and this worked great. During this time I have taken all 4 separately out for walks around the neighborhood countless times.......but when it is my mare that is left behind in the round pen or stall, I can't even begin to describe how insane she acts. She paces like a crazed lunatic & calls out constantly, and when I return within about 20 -30 minutes, she is so drenched in sweat that she is dripping onto the ground. For about 2 months now, this has gone on every time I take one out, and that is almost every night. I have discussed with several other horse people, and everyone says that repetition & her seeing the one that left returns, she will eventually adapt. But the relentless actions at weaning time tells me that just may not happen. If this is not bad enough, her calling out is making it almost dangerous being with the one I take out, for it constantly prompts return calls & agitation on their part. When they call out, I immediately make them circle me, changing directions, for about 30 seconds. After a couple times of this, often the calling stops.....but last night my 2 year old was horrible. The circling, backing up & HQ yields went on for over 10 minutes while the calling back continued almost uninterrupted. The night before the same went on when I walked my mare.....the constant calling, circling & backing. After returning with my colt last night, I took out my 8 year old while my mother walked the QH. My mare's antics went on for almost 2 hours while we prepared to leave & while were out. Upon returning, when I let her out of the round pen, she was so sweat encrusted & exhausted, she walked out into the arena & laid down straight out & would not get up to eat. I am at wits end. I have no one to help me, so it has been extremely frustrating. Unfortunately I know what my options are with my mare.....rehome her or send her away for a while. Finances won't allow for boarding out, and I certainly don't want to part with her. This I know I have to work out for myself. My question is does anyone have any suggestions of how else to handle the calling back of my walking partner ? Was I doing right with circling & HQ yields ? If this were your so called life, how would you handle it ? __________________ Horses of a different color - Shiloh, Desert Ghost, Valentino & Rusty

10-25-2009, 07:24 AM	#2
MuckMuck Senior Member+ Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: northern California Posts: 816 Images: 1	Unfortunately,It does not sound like you have the facilities to handle the situation. There is MUCH that you might have done before to ease the transition of weaning and now a pattern is set. The only way to get out of this is a clean break between the two. You could get the baby(two year old)in with a friend,but mom is still going to want what she wants. Get the mare or the 2yo to another ranch. __________________ Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. W.C. Fields

10-25-2009, 07:44 AM	#4
MuckMuck Senior Member+ Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: northern California Posts: 816 Images: 1	Starfire, Have you ever gone to a party or meeting and you were in a room with a bunch of people and you got the feeling that "It just wasn't working"? The dynamics of your group are not working for whatever reason. I have about 25 horses on my place and there are some combinations that just don't work. If I were to place certain horses in a group there would be a melt down or war. You have to find a place where your mare is happy WITHOUT the baby. Some combination will work,but it may not be at your place for a while. I have a mare here that lost her best friend to illness a few years ago and I tried a dozen combinations to see if I could put her at ease and finally found something to make up for her loss. You will know when you have it because you will get your old mare back and she will be happy. __________________ Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. W.C. Fields

10-25-2009, 04:35 PM	#8
MuckMuck Senior Member+ Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: northern California Posts: 816 Images: 1	There really is not much you can do about the calling and just have to work through it. Everyone has different settings and I have a place that I can get away from the herd and also a place that they can kind of see each other. The idea is to let the horse know that there is a beginning a middle and an end to the exercise. In other words that the horse has a sense that the training will end at some point and they will be able to get back to their friends. If the mare can not go for a long walk by her self then take one of the friends at first. After a while you can change friends and then maybe try going all by herself. You are really trying to get the mares attention on YOU! After I wean my babies I take a long walk to the mail box about 1/4 mile down the road. Sometimes I grab two babies and take a further walk to the end of the road which is a mile long. This prepares them later in life as we start to take trail rides away from the herd. You should be the center of that mares world,not the baby. __________________ Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. W.C. Fields

10-25-2009, 05:26 PM	#9
seaecho Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 880 Images: 23	This is just my two cents, but if I had a horse that got so upset when I took a herdmate out that she was soaked and dripping with sweat when I got home, and was so exhausted that she laid down and wouldn't even get up to eat, I'd sell her YESTERDAY. If you aren't totally and completely attached to her for life, find her another home. I truly believe its the kindest thing you could do for her. Sounds as if this is a pattern, and its become automatic for her. She is getting herself so worked up that it may be only a matter of time before she colics very badly. My older Arab whinnies and paces the whole time I'm gone with one of his herdmates, but I don't come home to a dripping with sweat, exhausted horse. He's just a bit wound up. There's a big difference between my situation and yours. You have to look at what is best for your horse. I would think it might be best to have her live in a one-horse situation. Otherwise, I fear the same thing might happen all over again. Again, maybe not, because her son wouldn't be involved. In any case, I strongly feel she needs to be off your property and separated permanently from your other horses. Otherwise, your other horses may be ruined, from the sounds of how they act when she screams for them. These are just my feelings, of course.