[jiblethead]

HELP! Please tell me what you think is the best way to feed these horses.

Horse 1: 10 years old, easy keeper, dosen't like just plain pellets, no other supplements currently being fed, would prefer a Purina feed, free choice hay.

Horse 2: 20-30 years old, medium keeper (between hard and easy keeper), no other supplements currently being fed, free choice hay, would prefer a Purina senior feed.

I would also kind of like a RB, pelleted/sweet feed, and oats. Like feed a small amount of each? Maybe, I don't know, that why I'm asking for help.

[Dawn]

Originally Posted by jiblethead

HELP! Please tell me what you think is the best way to feed these horses.

Horse 1: 10 years old, easy keeper, dosen't like just plain pellets, no other supplements currently being fed, would prefer a Purina feed, free choice hay.

Horse 2: 20-30 years old, medium keeper (between hard and easy keeper), no other supplements currently being fed, free choice hay, would prefer a Purina senior feed.

I would also kind of like a RB, pelleted/sweet feed, and oats. Like feed a small amount of each? Maybe, I don't know, that why I'm asking for help.

Can you explain a bit more for us?

I'll number things to help keep it straight. (Just so you know, not trying to do it in a rude or obnoxious way. Just helps to insure that things get answered and questions aren't 'lost'.)

1. Is Horse 1 fed anything aside from free choice hay currently?
2. Is Horse 2 fed anything aside from free choice hay currently?
3. What kind of hay is being fed?
4. What are you referring to as 'plain pellets'?
5. Why would you prefer a Purina feed?
6. Why do you want Horse 2 on a senior feed?
7. What brands of feeds do you have access to besides Purina?
8. What type and amount of work are these horses in?
9. When were teeth last floated (both horses)?
10. Can you detail their deworming history for the past year? (Specifically as possible please)
11. Why would you prefer a ration balancer?
12. Why would you prefer a pelleted or sweet feed?
13. Why would you prefer oats?

Again, just looking for more info. There are no 'right or wrong' answers here. (Well, the reasoning behind them might or might not be correct.) But by knowing where you're coming from on the why's will help all of us to adhere to what you want/need as well as correct any misinformation you might have.

Sorry for the amount of questions. I think you can see why I numbered them! If you answer them by number, that'll help too.

[jiblethead]

1. Is Horse 1 fed anything aside from free choice hay currently? Grass.
2. Is Horse 2 fed anything aside from free choice hay currently? Grass.
3. What kind of hay is being fed? Timothy.
4. What are you referring to as 'plain pellets'? Things like Strategy. Where it is just a pellet, no other added stuff like molasses, oats, or corn.
5. Why would you prefer a Purina feed? I find it works the best, and my horses like it the most (I have some picky eaters).
6. Why do you want Horse 2 on a senior feed? She is a senior horse, and sometimes has trouble keeping on weight.
7. What brands of feeds do you have access to besides Purina? Nutrena, Local Brands (sweet feed, oats, corn) Platform, and Tizwiz
8. What type and amount of work are these horses in? They are not ridden, but sometimes have trouble keeping on weight.
9. When were teeth last floated (both horses)? I Have no idea, but I have been trying to find one.
10. Can you detail their deworming history for the past year? (Specifically as possible please) January 2009-Ivermectin (Generic)
March 2009-Ivermectin Praziquantel (Equimax)
May 2009-Ivermectin (IverCare)
July 2009-Fenbendazole (Safe-Guard)
September 2009-Pyrantel Pamoate (StrongyleCare)
November 2009-Ivermectin (Generic).
11. Why would you prefer a ration balancer? I don't like to feed mass amounts of feed (It gets too expensive).
12. Why would you prefer a pelleted or sweet feed? Horse #1 likes sweet feed the best. (I would rather have a RB than pelleted feed).
13. Why would you prefer oats? If I was to feed pellets, it would be the only way to get Horse #1 to eat it. To give them a little energy. They get a little "lazy" during the winter and just stand around unless they have oats.

Hope this helps, if you have any more questions just PM me or add a post.

[Dawn]

I'm just going to add back here. Some of the questions I'm going to ask here are to help you learn more about nutrition. I hope you don't mind Some are to help me get a better feel for what will work for your horses. (Still numbering my actual/direct questions as well as bolding. Really helps me in a post like this where I've really let my mouth run off on some tangents/sidetracks and the questions are easy to look over.)

1. How are the horses' weights right now? I know you mentioned Horse 2 being a 'harder' keeper. But he's not getting anything aside from pasture/hay right now. He must not be much of a harder keeper. (Just trying to get a feel of where you're coming from on this.)

What are you referring to as 'plain pellets'? Things like Strategy. Where it is just a pellet, no other added stuff like molasses, oats, or corn.

Pellets can be made of pretty much anything. Just because a horse turns his nose up at one pelleted feed doesn't mean he won't love another. They can be made of completely different things. It's unlikely that he simply has that strong of an aversion to the form (pellet).

Why would you prefer a Purina feed? I find it works the best, and my horses like it the most (I have some picky eaters).

2. Which Purina feeds have you tried?

Why do you want Horse 2 on a senior feed? She is a senior horse, and sometimes has trouble keeping on weight.

If she's doing well on what she's currently on, then there's no way that she can require the higher feeding amounts that a senior feed requires. Senior feeds are designed with the fact in mind that many senior horses are not capable of taking in, processing, and/or digesting adequate 'traditional' forages (hay/pasture). Since that's all this horse is currently getting and she's doing fine, that's not likely the case here. Now, that's not to say that some senior feeds (as well as other complete feeds not specifically targeted at seniors) can't be useful in other situations. But it's not what they were designed for and they still require higher feeding rates. Most typically in the 6-10 lb per day if the horse is eating adequate hay/pasture. That's a lot of extra calories coming in.

What brands of feeds do you have access to besides Purina? Nutrena, Local Brands (sweet feed, oats, corn) Platform, and Tizwiz

3. Hmmm....not sure exactly what I can do with that. Do you know if your Tractor Supply is still going to carry the Dumor line? (Assuming you have a TSC since you can get Platform and Tizwiz.)

When were teeth last floated (both horses)? I Have no idea, but I have been trying to find one.

4. That's a big priority, particularly on the older horse. Another way to look at my question is, how long have you had these horses? That way you'll know that they haven't had their teeth floated in 'at least' that amount of time. Possibly longer.

Can you detail their deworming history for the past year? (Specifically as possible please) January 2009-Ivermectin (Generic)
March 2009-Ivermectin Praziquantel (Equimax)
May 2009-Ivermectin (IverCare)
July 2009-Fenbendazole (Safe-Guard)
September 2009-Pyrantel Pamoate (StrongyleCare)
November 2009-Ivermectin (Generic).

Looks like you're following the basic pattern of the old school fast rotation. I'll briefly outline the issues with this.
Fenbendazole has a very high rate of resistance. At a single dose, it's almost a given that it's absolutely ineffective.
Pyrantel pamoate has a moderate rate of resistance. At a single dose, there's a fairly good chance that it's ineffective.
Both of the above drugs (assuming they're effective) only suppress egg production for 4 weeks. These rotations operate on an 8 week schedule.
So basically from July to November, it's very possible that your horses have had adult parasite populations and have been spreading eggs.
Another side to this schedule is that many/most horses do not need to be constantly dewormed. Because of their natural resistances, environmental factors, etc...the parasite loads are kept in check. So when you deworm, there might not even be any parasites to deworm for. Not only does this waste your money on dewormer, but it also exposes the immature stages of the parasites to the dewormer (but they're not killed). This is how resistance develops. You want to keep that exposure to an absolute minimum by only deworming as needed.
To determine if a horse needs to be dewormed, you can have your vet perform a test known as an FEC (fecal egg count). The result will be in eggs per gram and will tell you what type of egg it is. After a period of time of doing this, you will be able to see what type of parasite load that horse carries and base your program off of that. Many horses only need to be dewormed twice a year. (Spring and fall for bots and tapes. It's also a good idea to target encysted strongyles at this same time.)
Which leads me to a third issue with what you've followed for the past year. It hasn't addressed encysted strongyles. Moxidectin and PowerPak will do this. Personally, I prefer to use moxidectin. There are arguements for and against both. The negatives of PowerPak far outweigh the negatives of moxidectin imo.

Anyway, that's all off on a slightly different track from where you intended this thread to go. But by these horses periodically being difficult to keep weight on, could be directly related to parasites. Good for you for keeping such good track of what's been used though! I always write mine down on the calendar as well as keeping the box the dewormer came in and writing the date given on it so I have a double record.

Why would you prefer a ration balancer? I don't like to feed mass amounts of feed (It gets too expensive).

That's a very good reason

Why would you prefer a pelleted or sweet feed? Horse #1 likes sweet feed the best. (I would rather have a RB than pelleted feed).

Toddlers prefer chocolate and lollipops over veggies as well. Doesn't make it a good choice for dinner
You would not feed a ration balancer with sweet feed or a pelleted feed (unless you're talking about something like alfalfa pellets or rice bran pellets, etc...).

Why would you prefer oats? If I was to feed pellets, it would be the only way to get Horse #1 to eat it. To give them a little energy. They get a little "lazy" during the winter and just stand around unless they have oats.

You might find that with proper high levels of nutrition, their energy levels will be balanced out. A small amount of oats can be beneficial (or at the least not harmful) to most horses though. And by small amount, I mean 2 lbs or less a day.

__________________________________________________ __________

Now, based on what's been said so far. I'd go with Purina Enrich 32. It is their ration balancer for grass based diets.

Assuming both horses are doing fairly well weight wise right now, you won't need anything for additional calories. You might (or might not) need to add something to make it more tasty for Horse 1. You could do this with a small amount of oats (probably woudn't need more than 1/2 lb a day or so in this case). Or you could try something else like alfalfa pellets (horses find these very yummy and it would be more difficult for her to pick out of the ration balancer than oats would). Again, probably about 1/2 lb a day. I would (personally) try the alfalfa pellets before trying oats.

Now when/if Horse 2 drops some weight (assuming you don't find an underlying cause), you can add a variety of things to the Enrich to add more calories. Both beet pulp and/or alfalfa pellets make excellent choices for this. Both can be fed at high levels. (Beet pulp should make up no more than 40% of the forage content of the diet though.)

Other common calorie additives to a ration balancer based diet are rice bran and BOSS. (These are fat based calories as opposed to forage based calories.) Hay cubes can also be used in place of hay pellets. But when the main goal is to get more calories in the diet, the pellets tend to make a better choice.

Sorry for some of the extreme rambling in that post. I think I've had too much coffee....

[jiblethead]

Ok, so right now I'm going to answer the bolded questions.
1. Their weight right now is perfectly fine, but once the grass stops growing and they have to eat mostly hay, they tend to get ribby.
2. Purina feeds I have tried are: Strategy, Equine Senior, Omelene 100.
3. Yes the local TSC carries Dumor...I think. Last time I went (2 weeks) they still had it.
4. I have had them for 3 years. And they were rescues, so I assume it has been quite a while since they've had their teeth floated.
Two more things. I'm perfectly fine with just feeding RB and a little oats. And this winter they will be getting HealthyCoat (Omega supplement).

[Dawn]

The fact that they're dropping weight when they have to rely on hay and not pasture for their calories is an indicator that they need their teeth floated. So that could help you a lot in that area. (It also could be an indicator of very poor quality hay. But assuming that's not the case here.)

Based on all that, I would definately try what I put out above.