[JBandRio]

The first NH book I ever bought was "Lyons on Horses" right after I got Rio as a weaner. I have the whole Lyons series (or what was the whole thing at that point). I've used several of his techniques and liked them quite well.

I subscribed to his newsletter for a while too. But then that got to sermon-y so I let it lapse, and when I tried to watch him on RFD, I too couldn't bear to wait while he finished his preaching. I don't know why he started putting such a strong religious tone to his training, but apparently he felt a reason. Whether he gained followers because of it, I don't know, but I do know he lost a lot because of it.

[shakti21]

You know as long as this thread has been going now. If it were a horse it probably would have been put down if natural causes hadn't gotten it yet.

[dancer]

Originally Posted by shakti21

You know as long as this thread has been going now. If it were a horse it probably would have been put down if natural causes hadn't gotten it yet.

[shakti21]

Originally Posted by dancer

Well thats how we do it in GA lol.

[SweetSavannah]

If they have been raised "behind fences" they have learned that there is usually a gate somewhere and will go looking for it if they are hungry and do not have a "food source" on the side they are currently on. Shoot, if they are hungry enough, they will look for a way over or through the fence I belive that is reasoning.

wow so you are saying that a horse that knows there is a gate that it can walk through, cos after all its been raised behind fences, can find its way to the gate to get food!!! wow i guess they are more amazing than i first thought!

a lot of people mistake "vices" as intelligence. is a horse chewing on a fence doing so because it is trying to 'break out' of its stall? or is a horse pawing at the gate trying to dig its way to freedom? NO!!! NO NO NO!!!

it is a stable vice! the direct result of boredom, lack of stimulation, frustration at its situation, or it has learned that doing this behaviour has a favourable result. a pony that unchains a gate is not an act of reasoning. chances are the first time it was an accident, chewing to relieve boredom of being boxed, then oops the door swings open! result = excitement! hmm i must try this again! therefore it has learned a behaviour. it has not gone "human twists latch this way and door opens" and followed the thought process.

and if you are trying to say that horses "understand" english then i think i'll just about eat my hat right now! (some salt please!) the ability to learn verbal cues is not the same as learning a langage. if you go "walk trot whoa" do you think your horse will follow the process and execute the commands? alternatively if you go "walk" and then "trot" and then "whoa" the horse will! the horse needs to be prompted to do the behavoiur... hence it is a verbal CUE.... not a conversation that you are having with your horse!

and as for horses and emotions has anyone heard of anthropomorphism? attributing human emotions to animals?

well you can go up and see your horse and tell it to "walk trot whoa" and then sit back and chat to your friends about how your horse loves you while i go do some schooling eh? while you're up there can you grab a copy of Andrew MacLean's "The Truth About Horses" and read it out loud to your horse?

*sits back and munches on popcorn*

[Aussiesnapps]

Dear Sweet Savanna...I was hoping you were eating that hat!

I did say that horse can learn verbal ques. At that point IT IS a language you share with your horse (I happen to speak english therefore it will be english with my horse, not French). I also did say that they will not be able to understand complex language.

And eat that hat because horses in the wild, who do not have any contact with human and manage to get PI$$ED OFF, show fear, anxiety, and rage. ALL EMOTIONS (kinda like mine right now!)

ANNNDDD I do believe they have problem solving abilities or they would not have survived alone in the wild for SEVERAL THOUSANDS OF YEARS!!!!

Testing a fence IS problem solving. A stable vise is a completely different item usually stimulated by boredom, fear, nervousness or SOME OTHER EMOTION! Oh wait I guess they are such a low life form that they are just above plant life!

If they have no emotions, and emotions drive responses, then you must agree they have no responses. If you agree they have no emotions or responses then THEY CAN'T BE TRAINED because training is a conditional response to change a behavior to a desired behavior by pressure, reward or even pain on a limited scale! Trust me when my Alpha mare kicks the cr*p out of my gelding because she is a snotty thing he know pain, fear (an emotion) and changes his behavior real darn fast. OOpps there is a hole in your theory. That has nothing to do with your flowery example of love. It is a real horse owned, non human taught or transferred emotion. He owns it all on his own.

[huntergrl4212]

wow i have read through this whole thread and need i say it is long.
but i feel the same way about NH..not the emotions thing. i feel not picking sides will be better in this disscussion because i believe peices and points from both sides. anyways back to NH. i was trying to work with my horse 2 years ago on lunging. she lunged perfectly fine in the round pen but when i would lunge her in the arena she just turn around and face me and have me running around in circles trying to get her to walk forward.
so that day this lady who is a NH lover came and ranted to be about how i should put her in the round pen and she would be lunging in a day just like her perfect trail horse....my theory about this is in such a small round pen they have no other choice but to walk around in a circle...but when we would get into the arena and try to lunge....she would have many other options besides going into a circle.
she also pushing for an hour for me to keep one of her emergency john lyons books that she keeps in her car...just in case something happens and she will need to read up on what to do. like if her horse wont walk into the trailer. =]
but she just wouldnt hear the word NO! and it was starting to get to me...and i even started hiding in a stall until she tacked up and left for the trails. then winter set in and this seasonal rider only came out once that winter[thank god] but the one time she came out turned out to be the worst..
she again pushed NH and i was so sick and FRUSTRATED of hearing about this over and over again. i desided to ride around the indoor and linda[evil person] was grooming her horse.
we were working on collection and Kaycey[my horse] was doing very good.
i made the mistake of asking her if she was under herself and collected. and that is when the rant started..
she freaks out and starts yelling...oh she doesnt like that...that is not how she is supposed to look. her neck hurts from that...itll make her sick.
those are just a few lines..and later that week she said the same to my trainer who has way more experience and was eligable for the oylmpics. and went on the same rants with her.
luckly the owner of the barn was right there and she was like that is how she is supposed to be..and they fought...
but anyway that spring she asked me to ride and train her horse to be like mine. and i told her i was to busy..but i really ment.. "i dont want to listen to your ****" of course i didnt say that but for someone who knows everything[*rolls her eyes*] to ask little old me[who knows nothing**rolls eyes agian.**] to work with her horse was jsut hilarious to me..
she also yelled at use for riding so much in the ring and again i have a theory that fora horse to be good on the trails they should also be good in the arena.and visversa.
she thinks they get bored but that is because she only walks in big cirlce instead of little circles... figure 8s...ground poles...the exciting stuff.
i also ride on the trails and i think the arena has made my young horse better on the trails..you cant just take off on the trails if your horse doesnt even canter or trot in the arena.

sorry this is just my impression on the people who get to much into NH..but dont get me wrong this can be usful

[huntergrl4212]

sorr for the long post=]

[JBandRio]

Originally Posted by huntergrl4212

she lunged perfectly fine in the round pen but when i would lunge her in the arena she just turn around and face me and have me running around in circles trying to get her to walk forward.

Horse 1, you 0 Whomever moves their feet first loses. She knows the game very well, and she made you lose

Sounds like that lady read a wee bit much of the wrong things and never actually put any of it into practice

[Courtney1291]

this thread is soo ******** old just please close it im so sick of seeing it pop up. we get the point some of you like it, some of you dont. get the **** over it, stop fighting, close the 100 page thread. move on.