[Endorphins4u2]

Who was the lady Tricky ? was she famous ?

[JBandRio]

Originally Posted by Serendipity Zip

I can't talk to my horses, so I just listen to them. I dont need to do things the NH way to have a great bond with my horses. That comes from understanding.

But listening and understanding IS NH

[Serendipity Zip]

Listening and understanding is what ANY good horseman or horsewoman does.

[JBandRio]

Originally Posted by HJ_lilbit

First hand experience :

One girl who practiced Parelli all her life before coming to our barn. dealing with one of the mares the parelli way, she got trampled by the green horse, and is now never allowed to go near the horse anymore.

Next girl who dealt with this horse didn't practice NH, the horse got worked up, and was dealt with on her own terms, the horse paid attention like she knew she was supposed to, and didn't act up the whole time.

now, i know wich person i would rather be, how about you?

The person who can communicate effectively with the horse, regardless of any title or previous training.

Getting trampled by a green horse while pretending to practice NH methods means that person doesn't get it, either because she's too new to horses or is trying to apply a technique without really understanding what she's doing. I don't care of that's a 10yo or Michael Plumb - if they don't get it, I don't want them near my horse.

[cowgirlnat]

I think you all are confusing NH trainers and Dr. Spock trainers (NH extremists). I have read/watched tons of NH and non NH trainer and even the NH trainers get pretty forceful with their horses. Particularly Chris Cox, Clinton Anderson, and John Lyons. I have done less w/Parelli and Monty Roberts (my least favorite) but I do know that w/some of the Parelli games, you're asking can get pretty intense. Particularly the "wiggling of the rope." In a rope halter, the beginning stages of this pretty much consist of wacking your horse w/the snap with increasing intensity until they move backwards. The end result is the wiggle. Monty Robert's special halter is pretty much a toned down version of a stud chain. Just nylon rope rather than metal. And while he says you should never jerk on it, I've seen him do it. But I hate Monty so he's a poor example entirely. He's a gadget trainer, not a real trainer.

But then you have the people that take NH and go nuts with it. "I NEVER hit my horse. That's just wrong and unnatural." Glad to know...btw your horse just took out a little girl. My theory is to read, experience, and learn all you can, then apply it as you see fit. I have used Monty Roberts, Chris Cox, John Lyons, Clinton Anderson, traditional methods, and some plain old common sense. I have yet to find a commercial trainer that recommends using a vibrator to desensitize a horse to clipping...I think I'm gonna patent that one!

[JBandRio]

Originally Posted by Jess!

A horse can be standing still one second, and then attack you the next second. Sometimes, they do not give us warning signs.

Oh, they give warning signs, we're sometimes just too ignorant to see them

The first "sign" most horses give, and that we ignore, is invading our personal space. They must never come in on their own, they must be invited. All of us who allow our horses to be right there in our face are making a mistake. I do it too sometimes, and when I stop to think about it, I realize I have no one to blame but myself if either of my horses decide to nip or bite. But, if they do, they will realize that was a REALLY bad idea.

[JBandRio]

Originally Posted by HJ_lilbit

Are there any strong NH people who would like to come and back up their methods?

What do you mean?

[cherazam]

People that are NH extremeists listen to everything that their instructor says lets say its Parelli that never hits his horses. So the horse doesnt listen to the person that is doing his "games" or whatever they are and what they really need is to be hit, well the owner doesnt do it so the horse takes advantage. What I dont understnad is if thie is Natural Horsemanship why dont you go look out in the real world of wild horses. If some horse is bothering another they pin there ears and if they dont stop whatever their doing, WHAM its either a bite or a kick. Its natural horse behaivior.

[JBandRio]

Originally Posted by NeighNeigh

I think some NH techniques are great for young, relatively untouched, or abused horses, but IMO once the horse knows better, discipline is sometimes necessary.

Define "discipline" NH is not about beating a horse, or pandering to his wishes and desires. It's about setting guidelines and boundaries, making the right thing easy and the wrong thing hard, and if the horse crosses those boundaries or ignores those guidelines and shows no sign that he's sorry, he WILL be properly disciplined and backed off if the person is capable of recognizing the infringement and acting in an appropriate manner. Discipline

I politely told her that I've seen a lot of progress in the last few months with classical training, and I appreciate that the progress is being made in the saddle. [I just don't have the time or funds for 2 years of ground work!!! (Of course, I'm exaggerating, so don't flame me...)]

Classical dressage training, really classical, not most of this modern c.rap that's out there today, IS NH It's about asking, requesting, promising. You apply the lightest pressure you desire, and you up the ante until you get a response, then you release the pressure. They are both about forming an agreeable partnership. Both are about helping ensure the horse understands what you are asking and creating a willing partner who enjoys his work. You can't get there if you demand. You can't get there if you don't give the horse a chance to respond to aids. You can't get there if you force the horse to do things he's not mentally or physically capable of doing. All of those things describe true classical dressage AND true NH

[HJ_lilbit]

I mean someone who is a very firm believer and user of NH who would like to come and give their point of view clearer tahn already stated