[shakti21]

*stands holdign the shovel* I thought we buried this dead thread twice now. Who keeps digging it up? I mean look at the last several posts. I challenge anyone to show me how the posts being made are constructive in anyway. Come on people, us grown ups on here should grow some skin.

[Sharpspal]

Theres not one thing natural about any sort of Horsemanship. Iether you know how to communicate in Equine, or you try to teach your Horse Human. Im allowed to do the first one. Did I post on this thread already...?

[shakti21]

I like what my editor says about horsemanship.

"If you want to get down to it, then read everything you can and watch everyone you can. Then just forget everything you think you know and listen to the horse."

[Banat]

Originally Posted by Sharpspal

Theres not one thing natural about any sort of Horsemanship.

Amen

[shakti21]

Originally Posted by banat

Amen

Naturally!

[phorelockless]

Originally Posted by Sharpspal

Theres not one thing natural about any sort of Horsemanship.

Exactly.

I've been eyeing this thread for a while and haven't said anything, but I decided to speak up finally.

Horses were made to run around in the wild. Humans tamed and domesticated them originally, WE took them from their homes and herds and trained them to carry us on their backs, pull carts for us, haul heavy equipment, etc. If humans were wild we would be a predator to the horse - in no way would we have a positive relationship.

This is the defination of Natural:

nat·u·ral [nach-er-uhl, nach-ruhl]
–adjective 1.existing in or formed by nature (opposed to artificial): a natural bridge.

The horse-human relationships we see today were not formed in nature. Back in the stone ages you didn't see cavemen galloping around with horses for pure pleasure. Neither the horse or caveman would enjoy that one bit.

Taking a wild horse out of their natural habitat is by no means natural, does that make it wrong? No. Am I opposed to riding horses? Of course not, otherwise I wouldn't ride and own them myself. I am simply trying to clear up that there is no natural way to horsemanship.

I personally do not practice the kind of "natural horsemanship" referred to in this thread. Does that make it the wrong kind of training method? No. Different people are entitled to do what they want with their horse, and if it works for them - great! By all means go ahead and do it. I have my own methods that work for me, and not everyone may agree with them. But that doesn't make my methods wrong either.

I don't think it's fair to judge and label such a broad subject like Natural Horsemanship, from just a few incidences.

[MaggieSue]

Wait, I'm confused.
You said he was just thinking about kicking, so you snapped him with the whip, but then you said you can't correct a horse for something he's thinking.

NO, that's NOT what I said-I didn't crack him with the whip until he actually did kick me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaggieSue
I didn't say her, I said a horse LIKE her-one that I feel like I'm walking on eggshells around-and it sounded like you were just accepting the fact that she was like that-not trying to work with it.

Sorry to say you're wrong on how I'm handling her

JB, this whole thread would be alot shorter if you would stop quoting me wrong! I didn't say that-I said and I quote (from above)that it sounded like you were just accepting the fact that she kicked and you needed to walk on eggshells around her.

Well you sure set your horse up to kick at you by ignoring his signs for a week. I don't see how different this example is. What WOULD you do in this example?

AAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH, and people wonder why I get upset with NHers! I did not set him up-I did my daily routine, I did not KNOW he was going to kick THAT day-I did not know if he would EVER follow thru with his 'thoughts', but he did!! I'm NOT stupid, I can protect myself, the bucket that brushed his leg is actually what got kicked, it protected me from the actual kick-but HE kicked at it no doubt.
What would I do with a horse that won't go over a jump? It depends on the situation! Is it THAT particular jump, is the horse new to jumping, how much training has the horse had, etc, etc. Many variables here! First and foremost, I check for pain with a 'normally' obedient horse that all of a sudden won't be obedient. Then if it's a certain jump that they always balk at, I would get off and do groundwork asking them to go over it without me on them and see if they'll do it then-if not, the jump might be too high for them and I might need to go back to a lower jump.

Well apparently he was sending out some sort of vibe because you yourself said you and the trainer felt he was thinking about kicking for a week. And absolutely, yes, as BW said, you should have diffused the situation before he acted out. It's not that difficult. But I'm sure you know that

You cannot stop what hasn't happened! He was a good horse, still is, this was a ONE TIME THING. I handled it-he never did it again-END OF STORY!!

If you employ good methods of training and understand what you're doing and why, whether you call it NH or nh or traditional, you will create a happy, willing horse

And that is what I've done...so why are you saying that NH=good horsemanship/all others=bad?? I don't do NH, yet I have good horses, as do many others that never even heard of NH!!
I'm done arguing with you JB, we have agreed and disagreed many times in the past-but I'm done with you misquoting me and posting it over and over again. The poster asked about a situation and I told her about this, to show how I handled a situation with discipline-it was NOT posted for you to try to rip me apart and tell me how 'wrong' I was in how I handled it. Since the horse has never kicked since, I feel I handled the situation the best way. I would do it again.
I want to mention again...this is the reason the OP posted this in the first place...because of people that have to argue that NH way is the ONLY way, when in fact there are many ways that give great results. And we're tired of being told we're 'wrong'.

[littlecelticpony]

Originally Posted by Sharpspal

Theres not one thing natural about any sort of Horsemanship. Iether you know how to communicate in Equine, or you try to teach your Horse Human. Im allowed to do the first one. Did I post on this thread already...?

No, I disagree.
Like I said a few pages back, horses are inherently natural. Methods that work do so because they play into the horse's natural nature. Natural methods produce natural responses.

WE are natural! Don't forget that! We aren't horses but we're still living, breathing beings, just like they are. So we live in a more advanced society than 100, 200, 300 years ago. That shouldn't make us forget what we are.

[SunBun]

LOL why does this thread keep getting dug up? If you look at the date of the original post...its OOOOOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLLLDDDDDDDDDDDDD.

[sonny1]

If your, my, or who's ever horse needs getting after, then they need to be gotten after. I totaly agree with it. You have to be just a little tougher than they are but not a tirant, by that I mean get tough on them until they give up the bad behavior and then you quit getting tough on them the second they give up.
A horse respects the person who is tougher than they are. Just like in the herd. Who's the top horse? The one who is the last one to the grain, the one who is always the follower, the one with the most bite and kick marks, I THINK NOT. But what horse usually hates it if the lead horse gets taken out of the pasture, especially if there's only 2, the underdog. The low horse on the totem pole wants that tough horse their to protect it. So if your horse knows you're tough, it will respect you and will like you.
I get a kick out of these people who get all mushy over their horses. Don't get me wrong I like my horses too. I have a friend that just can't get after horse and let me tell you SHE NEEDS IT. Last year it bit her while she was trying to unsaddle it. Right away she thinks, "oh, it must be the saddle or bridle doesn't fit right" We just rode for 3 hrs. Yeah right . Or, "She must be tired" the horse barely broke a sweat and it's 5 yrs old. Get real...............I wanted to say. The ___ thing is acting like a ______ jerk and it needs an attitude adjustment in a BIG way. Sorry but this happened after the horse kicked the dog all of our horses on the ride and a couple riders too. It would actually stop and back up to the horse behind it to get a good kick in. The next time it stopped, my friend, who was riding her, couldn't figure out what the horses was doing. I told her, "She's lining up to get a good aim" so as soon as the next horse and rider got close enough (but we were all paying attention after the first kick) so she could let them have it. She didn't even comprehend what I was saying. What does it take for somepeople to get it through there heads that horses aren't always warm and fuzzy. I wonder if someone got kicked in the head or a broken bone if that would have made her think her horse was being naughty. I HAVE MY DOUBTS. The saddle would have been to tight then. HA HA.
And if anyone really thinks that Lyons, Parrelli etc. never really GETS after their horses, they are just kidding themselves. They just can't do it in public because of all these mushy animal activists out there who don't have a clue!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The person who uses natural horsemanship, not saying this it's wrong, that has never had a problem and gets the job done with out inflicting any pain (which I believe is a form of a training aid in the horse world) on any horse, yes, maybe they're doing the right things but they are also pretty lucky. They just haven't run into a TOUGH horse yet, but they will someday. They'll just tell the owner of that horse they wont train it becasue they can't stand to get tough with it. And most owners can't stand to see their horse gotten after either but then they don't wont to work with it either 'til someone else takes the edge off it.
Sorry if I went on a little too long but I hope I got my points across.