[Blondehorse]

I get very fed up with the NH trainers who are all nicey-nice and want to be 'friends' with their horses. I know my horse would be dead before she ever learned anything if I never got after her. But not all NH people are this way. That's why I really like Clinton Anderson. He is NOT afraid to get after horses. His motto is 'Be as gentle as possible, but as firm as neccesary', and believe me, he can be very firm!
I'm all for being gentle, but if being gentle doesn't get me what I want, I will definitely put the pressure on. And the thing is, people who are all for the gentle approach don't realize that those of us who are willing to be firm aren't constantly whacking our horses. After a few good whacks (AFTER the gentle cue doesn't get results), horses are smart enough to realize that they'd better listen to the kind cue.
I am very interested in NH methods, and pick and choose which trainers and methods I like, but I hope I don't ever come across as an overbearing NH fanatic or anything. I like CA's methods, and I use them, and I'm not afraid to tell people that, and share what has worked for me, but I'm not trying to push my ideas on everyone.

[HJ_lilbit]

Originally Posted by TrickPony

Exactly. I mean obviously there is a line... but if my horse is disrespectful to me I'm gonna jump all over him... not just "wiggle the leadrope" or something like that.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA omg idn why, but that cracked me up you just made my day

[mustangrider]

You have a point in some ways but I dont think youshould bash everyone that uses natural horsemanship. Just cause one lady is a no it all doesn't mean that everyone is. Those NH methods obviously work for a lot of people or else NH wouldn't be so popular. What works with one horse may not work for the next but it's no reason to bash other people's methods.

[PaintedPNH]

again....its not just wiggling a leadrope.

[cowgurl1811]

i personally dont have a problem with natural horsemanship. Do i do it?? nope. Why? Becuase i dont have patients. Imo a whip is just easier and gets to the point. lol. Luckily no one around us is into natural stuff.

[Serendipity Zip]

I don't like natural horsemanship because I dont think anything is truely natural [which isnt a bad thing]. I did level 1 of Parelli's program with Count because he was very sensitive and had "emotional" issues. I bought all the stuff. It worked wonders for him, only because if you smacked him he got more scared. I then tried it on another horse and it did nothing but almost got me killed for he was a horse that NEEDED a good hard smack.

Now Clinton, I love him. He knows its important to get after a horse, after asking nicely. He was also the one who said "Horses do way worse things to eachother." But what I really love about him is the lungeing for respect. Parelli doesn't think its good to "lunge" and I think that is just crazy [sorry Parelli fans].

[JBandRio]

Originally Posted by ThisIsMe

I'm not a NH person by far, but I do believe in common sense for training. For ever reaction you get from the horse, there is a reaction from you. You ask to yield to pressure, they do and you take it off. They dont and you apply more pressure.

You're more NH than you're admitting

NH is nothing new. It's not fancy. It's talking to the horse in his language, period. Whatever you want to call the tools, whatever you want to call the terms, whatever you want to call any of it, it's treating the horse like a living, thinking, breathing, FEELING creature, just like a human being. You talk his language and you'll both have a lot better relationship

[sher327]

I agree with alot of what the OP said and also JBR. It is the morons that stalk you like a warden and tell you how badly behaved your horse is and how only they know the way to fix it that ruins it for those who are doing some wonderful things with their horses and know that it is not the ONLY way but it IS their way

My horse has been involved in more NH clinics than the prior owner could count and he is a great horse BUT, even she would tell you there are moments where you have to step it up a notch and sometimes that means a good whack LOL

For instance, we rode this weekend, as we came back to home Tom turned into the yard while I decided we would go on the other side of the house. I asked and Casey tried to follow Eddie, I asked more firmly and he was still balking and then I turned his rump around gave him a good solid whack along with a growl and a few choice words and not only did he go but he had to go another MILE down the road and back gaiting lol

He clearly understood the request and was being defiant, we need to respect and care for our horses and I'm all for "talking in their language" and being gentle but there are times nothing but a clear cut command is going to do and I expect him to comply, I am his boss and if I wasn't I have no business being on his back because that's dangerous IMO.

[JBandRio]

Originally Posted by Serendipity Zip

I don't like natural horsemanship because I dont think anything is truely natural [which isnt a bad thing].

It's not that training a horse is natural, or riding him is natural, or using a saddle or bridle is natural, because it's not. It's using natural language that puts the natural into it. That's all

I did level 1 of Parelli's program with Count because he was very sensitive and had "emotional" issues. I bought all the stuff. It worked wonders for him, only because if you smacked him he got more scared. I then tried it on another horse and it did nothing but almost got me killed for he was a horse that NEEDED a good hard smack.

You can absolutely use a good hard smack with whatever tool under the right circumstance to get your point across with PNH. You apparently have never seen a real Phase 4 with a slow or stubborn or disrespectful horse. It's NOT pretty I have had to get there a few times with Rio, and believe me, it made him wake up and pay attention Smacking should not scare the horse. If it does, you have to back up and work on things before you get there. Or, your "smack" was too much for him for that phase. That's the trick in these lessons - knowing how to read the horse and knowing how much "force" is required in each and every situation. What might be Phase 4 to you and your horse in the Yo-Yo game might just be my Phase 2 for Rio in the Sideways game. It just depends

[Serendipity Zip]

I can't talk to my horses, so I just listen to them. I dont need to do things the NH way to have a great bond with my horses. That comes from understanding.