[MaggieSue]

It doesn't matter if it's Pat Parelli teaching it or Joe Schmo down the road, if someone, anyone is going to teach horse and rider a particular movement, then then CORRECT movement needs to be taught correctly! If it is not going to be executed correctly and with no obvious attempt to execute it correctly, than why bother doing it at all? What is the point of being incorrect? What is anyone actually learning except how to do it wrong? Then it takes that much longer, and is that much harder to learn it right later on down the road.

GREAT POST! It's quite obvious by their 'piaffe' that they don't KNOW the correct way of doing it, and therefore shouldn't be 'presenting' it to the masses that they do.

As drssg so aptly said, there are plenty of GP Dressage horses who do a worse piaffe than any of Pat's horses

At least they're in front a judge that will score them for it-and tell them they're doing it WRONG.

Do you honestly think I care what your opinion is of me or my skills (which you have never witnessed)? I could care less what you think of me.

It's not MY OPINION-IT'S THE PARELLI'S! It's not personal-if anyone came here and said the same thing...I'd tell them also.

I've never claimed to train horses

And no, I DO NOT work with their horses

In fact, I work with horses doing Parelli every week because the owners love it and see the benefits. With one horse I'm already doing Level 3 tasks on the ground and with the other I'm focusing mainly on Karen Rohlf's ground exercises because this horse is SO stiff.....he's getting better. I've worked with so many horses in my area I've lost count. I've helped people with trailer loading, riding, feet work, shots, getting the horses to be more obediant and less snotty, more motivated, less fearful, the list goes on and on. And each person has been thrilled with the results.

hmmm...wonder where I got the idea that you 'worked with horses'??

Alot of 'I' in there for you not to be doing the training.

In my posts you are only reading what you WANT to read, not what is actually written

Nope...it's pretty much there!

They haven't been focusing on perfecting it. That's why it's not perfect. And any smart person would know to properly understand how to do a piaffe you need to go to a dressage trainer who is very knowledgable.....Pat and Linda DO NOT TEACH a piaffe.

It's obvious to DRESSAGE riders that they have not been focusing on perfecting it-and it's ridiculous they even put it out there as such. Any smart person? There are many 'smart' people out there, that don't have a clue as to what a 'correct' piaffe is...they will take his word for it, that what he's doing IS a piaffe! THAT is my whole point...they slam dressage, yet they do one of the worst piaffe's there is.

And honestly, give PNH students some credit.....we are not stupid enough to not know what a piaffe really is

I won't even respond...even to such an open door as this, it's just too easy.

And can you do a piaffe on your horse? If not, I wouldn't be so quick to criticize

I can easily do a 'parelli piaffe'. A True Piaffe is a high level dressage move, my horse is training at Level 2...you do not do them in this level.
I can criticize all I want-somebody that is PRETENDING to do something, you bet I can.

[Spirithorse]

[quote=MaggieSue;3035808]
It's not MY OPINION-IT'S THE PARELLI'S! It's not personal-if anyone came here and said the same thing...I'd tell them also.

You said in your last post that in your opinion I was not qualified and I shouldn't be doing what I'm doing.....yea, I'd say that WAS your opinion.

hmmm...wonder where I got the idea that you 'worked with horses'??

Alot of 'I' in there for you not to be doing the training.

You asked if I worked with horses at the play days we have......and I responded No I Do Not. You are putting your own twist on my words, trying to make it seem more complicated than it really is.....and trying to make me out to be a liar and a complete fool. Well it might work on some people who can't see the truth, but it won't work on me and a lot of other people.

I won't even respond...even to such an open door as this, it's just too easy.

An actual attempt at maturity. Impressive.

[lvmypnt]

Say can someone show me what a Piaffe is????? Pretty please.

[StockHorseGirl]

YouTube - ANDREAS HELGSTRAND - WEG2006 Freestyle Final

at 2:48

[JBandRio]

Originally Posted by MaggieSue

At least they're in front a judge that will score them for it-and tell them they're doing it WRONG.

If only it were so - watch a few GP tests one day, it will be an eye-opener

[lvmypnt]

Originally Posted by StockHorseGirl

YouTube - ANDREAS HELGSTRAND - WEG2006 Freestyle Final

at 2:48

Thanks a bunch. I know what that is. I guess I just never knew the name of it. Gosh I love to learn new stuff.

[Beeks]

Ha! I missed two days of this thread which came out to about 16 pages and about an hour of reading.

This thread started out as a negative commentary on "Natural Horsemanship" and has somehow morphed into a Parelli debate. I would like to get away from that for a moment if I could, and try to focus on what is really important. A kinder more communicative way of bringing the best out of our horses.

"Natural Horsemanship" is not new, but it has been given a catchy name and brought to the forefront and for the later part, I am eternally greatful. Wouldn't it be nice, if the days of snubbing a colt to a post, in the middle of a hot, dry dusty corral, with one foot tied up, could be gone forever? If the horrors, that were once mainstream and used to aquire submission, could be gone forever, wouldn't that be a good thing? I am happy, that you no longer have to be brutal to be considered effective. For YEARS, there have been those, quietly going about the business of starting horses is a less violent manner, than what was considered traditional. The "Breakers" probably scoffed or thought these methods were for sissies, but time and success after success have proven that they work. I cannot see a down side to that.

There are so many wonderful trainers out there, who have never picked up a book, watched a dvd or attended a clinic. They learned through YEARS of experience and from those whose training techniques they admired and produced good honest horses.

I'm not pro-Parelli or anti-Parelli. My experience with him is limited to a book I bought many years ago, which I found to be a bit boring. I will say though, that I will attend ANY training clinic I can manage to get to, as I believe you can never educate yourself enough. Use what works for you, and discard the rest. Not evey techniques will work for every person due to the amazing amount of variables involved.

I don't think anybody here, is advocating the liberal use of a whip to compensate for lack of patience. I don't think anybody here, would use some of the more barbaric ways which used to be considered normal, to start or further educate their or anyone elses horses.

I have had people, suggest things to try for problems I may be having. They are not trainers per say, but if what they were suggesting sounded logical then why should I discard the suggestion because they don't make a living training horses.

At a poker run once, though unfortunate, some ding ****, decided to discard an old mattress in the middle of a commonly used trail. Of course, when my friend and I encountered it, it became a snorty situation, but by having fun with letting our horses discover it was not a horse eating alien, they were eventually walking all over it without a care. Someone asked us if we had attended a Parelli clinic and we both kinda had that "Huh?" look on our faces. They thought we had used the "game" technique to get our horses over their fear.

Nope, we just have fun with out horses.

[Beeks]

Stockhorsegirl- I LOVE that video...it puts a lump in my throat and I'm a trail rider.

[kristenc812]

Originally Posted by Beeks

I have had people, suggest things to try for problems I may be having. They are not trainers per say, but if what they were suggesting sounded logical then why should I discard the suggestion because they don't make a living training horses.

Thank you. You took the words right out of my mouth.

[JBandRio]

Beautiful post Beeks!