[monica-n-shiloh]

I did a "tackless training" class in college. We learned to work the horse using only our body language. You could see the horse stare at you at first like "what the heck??? They cant mean that...." and by the end of the semester you could barely move and the horse would do what you had started to ask with your body. It was amazing and alot of fun.
Thats to the extent I do NH.
The rest I just call "good horsemanship" and "common sense" like Jess.

I think all the big names are just cashing in on people's being nieve.

[SalemsMom]

First off,I want them to know I'm the boss,not them, and if it takes a little pain,for them to figure that one out,so be it!

[Bruce Wiley]

Originally Posted by freedom32

You can't buy common sense. Reading a book or watching a video does not a trainer make. There is no 'one true' way of doing anything.

I am always amused by these threads. No offense to anyone. Natural Horsemanship is not new, it goes back to Xenophon, and it is mostly good horse sense. I am willing to bet dimes to dollars that we have all used NH at one time or another, just now some folks have packaged it all up and put a price tag on their particular methods. You can't patent good horsemanship, and IMO when something reaches almost cult status some of the original message gets left by the wayside. There are thousands and thousands of good trainers out there, and not one of them does things in the exact same way, horses are individuals and you can't put a cookie cutter approach to training, you have a core approach and modify it as nessesary.

There is a huge differance in someone who offers help when needed, and one who preaches a sermon uninvited. One is wise, and one is in need of Beano

I totally agree with Freedom32, JB and others.
It not the Parrelli's, Lyons, Monty Roberts, Clints Anderson etc...
Lets face it, they have make their mark thru the media.
Its the impersonating of a NH trainer and bad application of the method,
and yes there are alot of wanna be, they are robbers of your hard earn money.
Alot of them exercrise your horse because they suffer from lack of knowledge.
You don't have to ask for references-thats fix to.

There isn't a horse training cookie cutter method.
We must always be aware of these kind of folks.

I see things and some of those people need help, but they must ask for help.
People notice my actions, working and ask me where, who train you.
I function on this old saying in life.
I believe my talent & skills will make room for me.

[Grey Wolf]

Whew! I just read this thread start to finish, and it took almost half an hour! It's wonderful to see how respectful everyone has been, especially given that this is a pretty controversial subject...

One of the things I've learned by studying and practicing the techniques of a few of the "big name" trainers is how similar their techniques are. I think there is a lot of "core" wisdom in each.

I have a lot of experience with John Lyons and PP, and while I admire JL as a man, I like PPs methods better. I've read and understand the issues regarding the pricey-ness of his stuff. As has been mentioned, there are other, MUCH less expensive places to buy the stuff he requires. And, I think that if you are going to use a particular program, you need to follow the instructions carefully. If you don't, how can you ever say the method didn't work?

NH people are funny. They follow the directions and get some results, and they just HAVE to "share". When that "sharing" comes across as unsolicited advice, it certainly is annoying. I learned a long time ago to keep my opinions to myself unless asked. Of course, when people criticise me for using PP, I chaulk it up to their own experience being different or negative. You can't please everyone.

The purpose of all the NH programs that are out there are to give the average horse owner a chance to teach their horse and themselves what they need to know in order to have a safe relationship. I don't begrudge any of them for making a living at it. I am free to buy it or not. I DO think that if you pick a method, you need to follow through with it, especially if you are new to horses. Where I've seen hore owners get in trouble is when they mix and match techniques, or interpret a technique to suit them. With PP, for example, I do the steps in order, and if I have a question or a problem, I get help. I don't do what I want instead of what's intended.

In my experience with the programs we've used, I see a path forward to train my self and my horse in a way that doesn't require the abuse of the "old ways", achieves measurable results over time, keeps me and my horses stimulated. I think it's fun, and I think they do too.

That there are others out there that misapply what is written, or inappropriately "share" what they know, I have no doubt. But I also know that at least two of the programs out there work as advertised for the owner that can leave his ego at the gate, follow directions, and be willing to ask questions.

[PaintedPNH]

Originally Posted by cowgirlnat

My big question is if they're really out to better the methods for training horses to make life better for these animals, then why do they charge out the a** for you to learn them? The Parelli program starter kit is over $300. His bareback pad is close to that. Monty Robert's halter is like $40 and you can't even choose what color you want. Everything is so outrageously priced that the average person can't afford it. I understand having to cover costs, but these people are making millions.

Well I if I had never discovered Parelli we would have spent close to the same amount of money on martingales, bits, various other gadgets and hmm maybe a medical bill or two. Which would YOU rather spend money on? A solution, or a cover up that may not work in a month?

And also, there was no cost to us whatsoever for Pat to work with Ringo for 2 days. All we had to do was get him down there. Stalling and everything was free of charge.

[prettyqtrs]

I follow Clinton Anderson, buy some of his stuff, etc. But, I do agree well known clinicians do charge an arm and a leg for their products. But, they do it because they know they can.

[Serendipity Zip]

I use martingales, bits and other aids. Why do I call them aids? Because when used properly they AID the horse and rider. I would rather spend money on the training I know will work for my horses. Parelli would not. Period. I know what training methods will and will not work for my horses.

Just because its "Natural Horsemanship", that doesn't mean its the solution for everything. The aids I listed above are only "cover ups" if you don't know how to probably use them, or you rely on them to much.

[JBandRio]

Originally Posted by Serendipity Zip

I would rather spend money on the training I know will work for my horses. Parelli would not. Period. I know what training methods will and will not work for my horses.

Why do you feel PNH absolutely will not work with your horse? I'm not being snarky I'm just always like to hear reasons behind why folks think X won't work for their horse. Often this is due to lack of true understanding of X - not to say this is the case here, but that's why I like to hear reasons

[Serendipity Zip]

It's not the case for I have a good understanding of PNH. Sara gets bored with the games [I did all of them with her] and Smoothie would be confused by them because of previous training. I have no use for PNH. Although, I admit I am found of the general purpose of NH.

[JBandRio]

Ahh, bored with the games. This can be a common situation. That's when you the person have to get very creative in using them. I bet you use them more than you think in your every day life The games, once you get the hang of them, should not be played for the sake of playing them. They should be used for the sake of DOING something, whether it's trailer loading, backing through gates/doorways, sidepassing over poles, moving through obstacle courses, etc. The games in and of themselves ARE boring