[Aussiesnapps]

Oh by the way Let me tell you all my little rant ...my horse has yet to propose to me. I cook and clean and tell him I love him yet nothing. Is he haunted, will I need to rebirth him or maybe he was abducted.oh what to do what to do

I was rereading some posts on this thread and that one takes the cake

Natural horsemanship topic will bring out all types of people...

Again NH is older than time It's the gimmicks and packaging is new.

[wyldterv]

Originally Posted by Aussiesnapps

Oh by the way Let me tell you all my little rant ...my horse has yet to propose to me. I cook and clean and tell him I love him yet nothing. Is he haunted, will I need to rebirth him or maybe he was abducted.oh what to do what to do

I was rereading some posts on this thread and that one takes the cake

I've known a few human males much like your horse and I think you better have your horse abducted ... Yes this thread has had it's, uh, 'moments'

[HorseSunset]

What is traditional trianing. What would not be considered natural for training. Please give me xamples of what is done in traditional training and what is different in natural training. I just want to know. I see no difference unless it's in cowboy movies.

[AppalosaCowGirl]

Originally Posted by HorseSunset

What is traditional trianing. What would not be considered natural for training. Please give me xamples of what is done in traditional training and what is different in natural training. I just want to know. I see no difference unless it's in cowboy movies.

EXACTLY lol this is such a better way of asking my question...

and no chance in he// I am re-reading this thread I remember when it started!

[mymorgan052895]

the only thing i like about natural horsemanship is some of the games because they are just fun to do with my horse. if i didnt give my horse a good smack every once and a while he would walk all over me.

[accphotography]

I'm not sure why people seem to think "Natural Horsemanship" means you can't correct your horse physically (smacking). That is NOT what it's about. In fact, many "NH" trainers encourage and participate in physical correction.

ACC

[StockHorseGirl]

[quote=MaggieSue;2525429]I've been riding for 20years and have never seen or heard of anyone doing this. I believe it's the old westerns that people think about when they talk of this, because I know of nobody who does this. This is why I also 'hate NH'...because the BNT's like to put this garbage out there, that unless you do NH...you do the above. And it's not true.

You are very lucky then. Around here it's a very common practice to smash beer bottles over a rearers head. The theory is that they will think the beer is their own blood and they will calm down. I have heard of all the other things she mentioned being used on a regular basis except dragging the horse into water. It's disgusting, but true.

I don't see why anyone would hate natural horsemanship. It's a pretty good training method, and it's been successful for a lot of people. It's the ones who go overboard with it that make it suck, just like in everything else.

I have heard a terrible horror story about Clinton Anderson abusing a horse to death, but I'm not completely sure if it is true or not. I still won't watch his program because of it, just in case it is true.

[wyldterv]

Originally Posted by accphotography

I'm not sure why people seem to think "Natural Horsemanship" means you can't correct your horse physically (smacking). That is NOT what it's about. In fact, many "NH" trainers encourage and participate in physical correction.

ACC

I'm not sure about that myself... even Parelli gives the horse a good strong WHAP when it's warrented to get his point across.

[IIIBarsV]

The way I decipher the difference between "Natural" or "unnatural" is very, very simple.

First and foremost, if there is anger, rage, revenge or any violence that the SPCA can arrest for under charges of Animal Cruelty, it is Unnatural. And also completely unacceptable.

Secondly, "Natural" training is anything that gets the job done without causing undue/severe physical pain, gets the best possible and best quality result, and the horse is still in good health and very importantly, still a *happy* horse who likes you and is happy to perform for you.

One thing that helped sell my mom's previous pleasure horse was his confidence, his responsiveness and his happy expression. He always had his ears forward in the show pen. He was trained with soft hands, no spurs, a gentle low-leverage shank bit. He could be ridden with spurs without a problem but there was really no need for them. Yes, he was trained in draw reins at times (basically just riding around with them like they're normal reins), and knew how to lunge with elastic sidereins.

The contrast between him and the horse we ended up trading/buying for was as stark as black and white. The new horse was absolutely miserable. He always scowled, he was aggressive and unresponsive. He bucked, kicked and reared with spurs and had his ears pinned flat the whole time.

The last few months, I've been riding him bareback, in the fields, sometimes with a snaffle or my english leverage bit (myler MB33 D-ring with hooks). I have never put spurs on this horse, but I have used a dressage whip once or twice to get him to trot out. His expression has totally changed. His ears never come back when I'm riding him, and his responsiveness is to the point currently where you can squeeze your legs and he jogs off immediately. I can't wait for people who knew what he was like before see him showing this year.

I find it hard to watch pleasure classes (especially western pleasure) at any level bigger than the local club. I went to an AQHA show and warmed up the previous pleasure horse (wasn't competing), and I was the only one in the pen without big honking rowels on, and also the only one who wasn't randomly jerking on my horse's face. My horse was golden and happy as a peach. The other 25-odd horses looked ****** off and miserable or dull as heck.

Natural horsemanship- actually, just plain GOOD horsemanship- allows for a compromise and partnership between horse and rider. The horse respects and listens to the rider without any objections or miserable expressions. The rider respects the horse and rewards their every effort.

The bottomline is "respect". Respect for each other's dignity, self-worth, and spirit.

If your horse no longer has his or her ears forward when you're riding them, swishes their tail a lot (assuming you haven't blocked it) or is lazy as heck even when you're digging as hard as you can with your spurs- try taking them off for a few months. Try gentle squeezing instead of kicking. Try using your pinkie and ring-fingers to squeeze the reins, instead of jerking with your whole wrist and arm. Try going back to a plain smooth-mouthed snaffle or a halter and ride slow and easy for a couple weeks, instead of reaching for the single twisted wire 2 pounder or the high port correction with 8 1/2 shanks.

I believe the main point here is not whether you whack your horse or not-

It's whether your methods are dealing with bad behavior and increasing your horse's training level without robbing them of that happy, confident expression.

[AppalosaCowGirl]

ok I think I have figured out one example of traditional and natural.

two methods of tying

Traditional

A trainer I know(MY friend told me this.) when he had a horse that would stay tied, (I am not sure how he did it) but he tied a rope around their chest or something so that when they were tied and they pulled, that rope would tighten and if they kept pulling they might pass out.... (you dont leave them like this) when they pass out you release the rope and do it again. until they dont pull anymore.


Natural

now Caesar used to pull things down when I tied him... Fences, posts, etc.. this is the one time John Lyons made sense to me... I went through his five steps to get Caesar to tie... fiorst it was getting used to the rope.. the following its pull. then making him follow the pull up to a fence... (with me standing to the side, so he was walking away from me) I forget some of the steps but it did work. Caesar didnt pull anything down after that. Though I sold him before I truely felt like all the kinks had been worked out..

so am I right? is this an example of Traditional and Natural. if this is the case.. I dont see why you guy "hate" NH though when I read the first post I got the impression this thread was about the over population of N H trainers trying to force their methods on you.