[wyldterv]

Originally Posted by Blistering Winds

I guess it depends...do you want to leave a mark or not???

I find smashing immature corn on immature heads MUCH more fulfilling....

Corn stalks are not so easy to find around here.... 6x6 on the other hand happen to be sitting next to the barn

[Friesiangirl]

Originally Posted by wyldterv

Corn stalks are not so easy to find around here.... 6x6 on the other hand happen to be sitting next to the barn

My head is immature. I better run from BW, but on the other hand, i don't think we are allowed to kill anyone... so X6 might be a little too much

[BonnieM]

Sorry to disappoint ya gals, but I am not taking the bait. I am outta here.

BonnieM

[Blistering Winds]

Originally Posted by BonnieM

Sorry to disappoint ya gals, but I am not taking the bait. I am outta here.

BonnieM

You'll be back.

[BonnieM]

Originally Posted by Blistering Winds

You'll be back.

Nope.

Elvis has left the building. BuhBYE!!!

BonnieM

[Circle C]

Originally Posted by TrickPony

Okay... sorry, but this is really starting to get to me.

When natural horsemanship first started being marketed to a wide audience, I thought it presented some neat ideas (through Monty Roberts, Pat Parelli, John Lyons, some of those original guys). I didn't agree with everything, but some of the literature was very interesting and I liked the idea of working with your horse instead of against it.

Now, however, it's just getting ridiculous. Today, I was riding my horse at a public arena, and he was refusing to back. This is a training issue he has - the previous owner would let him walk through the stop and back up.

So, I was carrying a dressage whip, walked him into a fence, and asked for the backup again. He just set himself against it - so rather than pull harder on his mouth, I tapped him on the chest with my dressage whip. Still no response, so I gave him a pretty hearty smack to wake him up and to let him know he can't just not respond to a cue.

Note... he had three chances to do the right thing here. I've been practicing this with him quite a bit, and he now knows that walking into a fence and rolling back on my seatbones means to stop and backup. He's also clear on the back-up cue (rein pressure). The first tap was a light one. So - by the time I really got after him, it wasn't like I was harrassing him for no reason.
After that - he backed freely and lightly every time I asked him.

This lady comes over out of the blue and starts on some 15 minute rant aboout how she's this amazing natural horsemanship trainer and could really help me get over some of these resistance issues through trust and cooperation.
It just went on and on and on... I seriously wanted to kill myself.

You know what? Being able to run a horse around in a roundpen does not make you a natural horsemanship trainer. Being able to ride your horse without a bridle does not mean that you have this deeper than thou connection with your horse.
Hitting your horse does not mean that your training methods are inferior... just different. Hello, horses kick, bite, and otherwise hurt each other in the pasture. Pain is just another way of getting a point across in the animal kingdom.

Sorry, just had to get this off my chest. Since the whole "natural horsemanship" movement 10 years ago, it seems like suddenly everybody is a trainer. Back off with this stuff. It's a way of getting things done, but not neccesarily THE way.

And you know what? My horses like me well enough to let me hang off the side of them - they have some many chances to kill me if they really wanted to. And yes, I hit them, get after them, and not all my methods are "natural". But at the end of the day they are still well trained, respectful, and not afraid of humans.

I agree 100%! That's why I absolutly ADORE Clinton Anderson. I've seen him whack many a horse...HARD. BUT, this was AFTER the animal was given every opportunity to do it BEFORE being whacked.

I think people need to remember that it IS a horse, not a human. You can bond, but don't expect the horse to all of the sudden act like your sister or jump in front of a train for you LOL

SOme people...... sighs

[MaggieSue]

Hitting your horse does not mean that your training methods are inferior... just different.

Anyone doing NH correctly does hit their horse-when needed, as in the case of most ALL good training.

Sorry, just had to get this off my chest. Since the whole "natural horsemanship" movement 10 years ago, it seems like suddenly everybody is a trainer. Back off with this stuff. It's a way of getting things done, but not neccesarily THE way

ONE of my many points here, thank you!

You know what? Being able to run a horse around in a roundpen does not make you a natural horsemanship trainer. Being able to ride your horse without a bridle does not mean that you have this deeper than thou connection with your horse.

AMEN, you just have time to teach it.

[wyldterv]

Originally Posted by MaggieSue

Anyone doing NH correctly does hit their horse-when needed, as in the case of most ALL good training.

ONE of my many points here, thank you!

AMEN, you just have time to teach it.

MS, what is the purpose of dragging up quotes from posts several posts back other then your way to trying to get the last word in edgewise???

Have you nothing new or unique to add to this well overdrawn topic????

[JBandRio]

Has it ever occurred to anyone, MS in particular, that the "wave" of NH followers has nothing to do with the NH movement itself, but rather the rapidly increasing availability of info on the internet, and the ever-increasing number of people taking advantage of it?

[Phedre]

Originally Posted by Circle C

I agree 100%! That's why I absolutly ADORE Clinton Anderson. I've seen him whack many a horse...HARD. BUT, this was AFTER the animal was given every opportunity to do it BEFORE being whacked.

I think people need to remember that it IS a horse, not a human. You can bond, but don't expect the horse to all of the sudden act like your sister or jump in front of a train for you LOL

SOme people...... sighs

Same here. Once in Waco he had to really get after this one horse, and he literally kicked this horse in the barrell because it was crowding into him and just entirely disrespectful.

Over half of the people didn't return on Sunday for the second part of his clinic. I'm sure that it had something to do with that.

I agree that horses are in an ENTIRELY different weight class-do what you've got to do (or, as he says "As firm as necessary but as light as possible.").

I have punched my colt for biting me. He doesn't do it now.

My Arab who wouldn't take a step back no matter what you did now will back with a wiggle of a rope.

My colt will back up if I point at him and say "Back up".

I do agree it's not NH that's the problem-it's the know it alls who think that "their" trainer's methods are the BEST/ONLY way to train your horse.

I saw Craig Cameron, and liked some of his stuff (much like CA), but he did a few things differently. Good. Some more useful stuff for me if I need it.

But I don't think that there's any "one true path" to horse training, except the path that gets results without out and out brutality.